Liverpool FC Forum

by **kazza** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:30 am

Sabre wrote:
Ciggy wrote:I feel he is intimidated by Gerrard when the two of them play together, he is scared of making mistakes incase captain fantastic shouts at him, and gets nervous and makes mistakes.

I think a good part of the Lucas diagnostic says "fear to make mistakes", but I don't think the captain has anything to do with it.

We've seen simply too many players overwhelmed by the pressure of a massive club.

A game like the Manchester Utd one though is precisely the kind of game he needed to shake those fears. Let's see if he does definitely and for once because this is the season he has to prove himself.

With everyone saying he had no chance against the Mancs he was the figure head for the teams plight. So it was fitting that it would be him to say "feck you, I'll show you we are better than you think", and he did. He was the most influential player on the field and was most instramental in the result. Others played well but he was the most influential, not bad for a guy with two left feet. He may have bad games in the future but this will always remind him he is good enough. He played like he was proving a point and the team benefited.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:38 am

kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:The feeling that the Mancs aren't the team they were oughtn't be overly controversial. They sold Ronaldo for 80 million quid, and lost Tevez on a free. The best player in the World and one of the best strikers in the World, replaced by an ageing Michael Owen on a free and Antonio Valencia from those powerhouses of Europe, Wigan. 62 million quid profit on transfers as well, making us look like huge spenders in comparison.

I've said all season they won't win again and I'm convinced they won't. The question of course is who will.

Maybe the team you always seem to gush over (in an "in the closet sort of way") Dare I say it .... Blue and plastic

Deary deary me. So I'm a Chelsea supporter now

In an "in the closet sort of way". What would you mean by an "in the closet sort of way", what a very strange comment, even by your own standards.

Look I've got an idea. Why not post about football, you never know, you might like it :cool:

.

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:39 am

bigmick wrote:The feeling that the Mancs aren't the team they were oughtn't be overly controversial. They sold Ronaldo for 80 million quid, and lost Tevez on a free. The best player in the World and one of the best strikers in the World, replaced by an ageing Michael Owen on a free and Antonio Valencia from those powerhouses of Europe, Wigan. 62 million quid profit on transfers as well, making us look like huge spenders in comparison.

I've said all season they won't win again and I'm convinced they won't. The question of course is who will.

Noone could sell a player like Ronaldo and not miss his diving, cheating, goals, free-kicks, step-overs, dramatic play-acting etc.

Of course the mancs will miss him, but it seems they still have enough to get past the bulk of their opponents - albeit unconvincingly at times.

MANC PREMIERSHIP RESULTS 09/10

W1-0 vs Brum - 34th minute winner, not that convincing against newly promoted opposition at home. That said the mancs do sometimes struggle early season, home draw against Newcastle (relegated) and Reading (relegated season before) show that

L0-1 vs Burnley - embarrassing defeat against the side that finished 5th in the Championship last season

W5-0 vs Wigan - looks convincing by scoreline, but they didn't score until the 56th minute and two late goals made the scoreline.

W2-1 vs Arsenal - Arsenal were the better side, threw it away with a penalty conceded and own goal

W3-1 vs spudz - won 3-1 where we lost 1-2, that after conceding so early

W4-3 vs Citeh - needed generous and controversial stoppage time to beat their Citeh rivals, two minutes added for subs and celebrations when Citeh scored, how many seconds were added for the OTT celebrations of the winner..................?!?!

W2-0 vs Stoke - didn't score until the 62nd minute, not easy

D2-2 vs Sunderland - looked second best, needed an own goal into stoppage time to salvage a draw against a side brave enough to take the game to them

W2-1 vs Bolton - an own goal and 33rd minute second goal made them look comfy until Taylor scored in the 75th minute to give the mancs an uneasy time until the whistle

L0-2 vs Liverpool - never posed a serious goal threat all game, looked at the decisions could have gone their way and they would have needed something like that to win the game ie their play alone would not have won it, needed a penalty or red card to go their way.

Half their GD came against Wigan, they certainly don't look as much the complete package as with the diva diver in their side. BUT they've scored two more goals this season than after 10 games of last season and have one more point. Then again last season they had already played us and Chelsea, whereas this season it is us and Arsenal of the 'big four'. This season they've won seven, last season they'd only won six.

They still have the threat, the back four is still the same even if they have lost Tevez and the diva diver. They still have enough quality to put away most weaker sides, although there is a vulnerability with a player who could unlock defences now gone. They seem to be passing the test against the better sides, maybe not convincing in all but still wins over spudz, Arsenal and Citeh are games we might hope they'd drop points in - and they have in past seasons.

by **Owzat** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:40 am

bigmick wrote:In an "in the closet sort of way". What would you mean by an "in the closet sort of way", what a very strange comment, even by your own standards.

Look I've got an idea. Why not post about football, you never know, you might like it .

He means you shoot your load over in secret

by **kazza** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:42 am

bigmick wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:The feeling that the Mancs aren't the team they were oughtn't be overly controversial. They sold Ronaldo for 80 million quid, and lost Tevez on a free. The best player in the World and one of the best strikers in the World, replaced by an ageing Michael Owen on a free and Antonio Valencia from those powerhouses of Europe, Wigan. 62 million quid profit on transfers as well, making us look like huge spenders in comparison.

I've said all season they won't win again and I'm convinced they won't. The question of course is who will.

Maybe the team you always seem to gush over (in an "in the closet sort of way") Dare I say it .... Blue and plastic

Deary deary me. So I'm a Chelsea supporter now In an "in the closet sort of way". What would you mean by an "in the closet sort of way", what a very strange comment, even by your own standards.

Look I've got an idea. Why not post about football, you never know, you might like it .

You love Maureen, you love Hiddink and now you seem to have lots of respect for their latest manager and yet you only find fault with our manager (ever watch Sesame Street because "one of these thing does not belong"). Just stating the facts.

Next time you accuse me of not writing football posts look above you as you just look silly

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:50 am

kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:The feeling that the Mancs aren't the team they were oughtn't be overly controversial. They sold Ronaldo for 80 million quid, and lost Tevez on a free. The best player in the World and one of the best strikers in the World, replaced by an ageing Michael Owen on a free and Antonio Valencia from those powerhouses of Europe, Wigan. 62 million quid profit on transfers as well, making us look like huge spenders in comparison.

I've said all season they won't win again and I'm convinced they won't. The question of course is who will.

Maybe the team you always seem to gush over (in an "in the closet sort of way") Dare I say it .... Blue and plastic

Deary deary me. So I'm a Chelsea supporter now In an "in the closet sort of way". What would you mean by an "in the closet sort of way", what a very strange comment, even by your own standards.

Look I've got an idea. Why not post about football, you never know, you might like it .

You love Maureen, you love Hiddink and now you seem to have lots of respect for their latest manager and yet you only find fault with our manager (ever watch Sesame Street because "one of these thing does not belong"). Just stating the facts.

Next time you accuse me of not writing football posts look above you as you just look silly

We really do need a "bang your head against a brick wall" smiley.

Try a football post, go for your life.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:53 am

by **kazza** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:06 am

How about that sabbatical you were promising us

by **andy_g** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:18 am

kazza, please stop being such a meff. please stop pursuing your ridiculous argument with mick. please stop making up stupid accusations just because it doesn't fit with your own view. please stop accusing him of being a chelsea supporter, loving hiddink, etc etc just because he has the ability to be objective. please stop accusing him of being anti rafa just because he still writes about mistakes that have been made even when we win.

mick, please stop rising to the bait and getting involved with the argument. please stop contributing to the spoiling of threads. please stop with the snide comments and 'told you so' attitude that has been spoiling your previously excellent posts.

please put each other on ignore as its really getting very very tedious in far too many threads.

thank you

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:42 am

Hear hear

by **stmichael** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:31 pm

very good article:
....................................

Liverpool's Lucas knows his actions speak louder than Alan Green's words

By Rory Smith

I doubt Liverpool’s Brazilian midfielder Lucas was listening to Radio 5 Live last Monday. And if not, then he would have missed a most illuminating chat between one of the station’s generally excellent presenters and Dominic Matteo, almost certainly the finest defender of the last 10 years whose name Leeds fans can rhyme with stereo.

“What, Dominic, do you think Rafael Benitez is doing wrong?”

“Well, for me,” came the reply. “He’s not picking the right players, or putting them in their strongest positions.”

“Well,” his interrogator replied, not unfairly, “what changes do you think he should make?”

“That’s not up to me. I’m not the manager.”

Happy to say where people are going wrong, but not willing to actually have any ideas of your own? This way to the microphone.

Alan Green, of course, that doyen of sports broadcasting, can top that. In the build-up to Liverpool’s match with Manchester United, that season-defining moment which forced everyone in the media, your correspondent included, to remember that seasons are never defined in October, regardless of how much Sky pretend they are, Green gave a run-down of the Liverpool line-up.

“Reina, excellent. Johnson, overpriced. Carragher, over the hill. Agger, just returning from injury. Insua, young. Mascherano, wife unhappy on Merseyside. Lucas, two left feet. Kuyt, bought as a striker, but doesn’t score goals. Torres, wonderful.” What the Northern Irishman and Ferguson-baiter in chief said of Fabio Aurelio and Yossi Benayoun is lost in the mists of time, but it would have been along the theme of average at best for the former, and unpredictable for the latter. Suffice to say it was not his assessment of either which stood out.

Similarly, he was spot on in his descriptions of Pepe Reina, the best goalkeeper in England and among the top five in the world, and Fernando Torres, the finest exponent of attacking play on the planet. But then you do not need to be a highly-paid broadcaster to spot that.

Rather, his withering remarks on the rest of Liverpool’s team, which, rather annoyingly, beat the much-vaunted champions about two hours after Green’s unsolicited verdict, were so unfounded, so wilfully hyperbolic, that they remain lodged in the mind 24 hours later.

Glen Johnson was overpriced, of course, but is that a fair summation of his abilities? No. He is an English international right back. Daniel Alves cost £23 million, Philipp Lahm would go for more than that. Johnson is not in their class, but he is the closest this country can manage. He is a £12 million player, but the extra £6 million can be considered a tax on his nationality, in the same way Stewart Downing is not a £12 million player, nor Michael Carrick an £18 million one.

Carragher’s standards have slipped, but, as he proved on Sunday, he is still a fine defender on his day. Daniel Agger is the best ball-playing centre back in the country, despite his injury problems. Emiliano Insua is young, but he is also brimming with promise. He will, most likely, be Argentina’s first choice left-back for many years to come. He has the potential to be better than Johnson, though his lack of stature may hold him back.

Mascherano’s wife, reportedly, has been unsettled in Liverpool, and it seems to have affected his performances, as have Argentina’s recent struggles, though he has been improving in recent weeks. He is also one of the best defensive midfielders in the world.

Kuyt was not bought solely as a striker, he was bought as an industrious, disciplined forward, who had spent much of his career wide, a position he continues to occupy for Holland. He also has a habit of scoring important goals, particularly in Europe.

But Lucas, two left feet? It would seem Mr Green has not watched Liverpool much this season. For all the criticism directed at the young Brazilian, he has been one of Liverpool’s more consistent performers in the last three months. Consistently bad, harrumph the more quick-witted on the band-wagon. It is an over simplistic assessment offered by those who prefer consensus to evidence.

Lucas’s range of passing is minimal, his accuracy poor, his decision-making unreliable. He is neither combative enough to play defensively, nor creative enough to play a more attacking role. So run the accusations.

Yet his main crime, put simply, is that he is not Xabi Alonso. He does not have the Basque’s guile, his vision, his control of time and space. Few players do. Only Xavi and Andrea Pirlo can match Alonso’s range of passing. Contrasting Lucas with his predecessor not only masks the fact that Lucas remains Liverpool’s third-choice central midfielder – behind Mascherano and Alberto Aquilani – but the qualities that made him a Brazilian international at the age of 20.

His energy, his tactical versatility, his economy of possession, the speed with which he moves the ball. Lucas should develop into a fine box-to-box player, rather than a master of the centre circle, as Alonso was. He has his flaws, of course – he does not score enough goals, he is prone to playing safe rather than challenging himself, he commits far too many unnecessary fouls – but casting him as a modern-day Ali Dia is absurd.

If he were, as competitive a manager as Rafael Benitez would not persist with him. Nor would Carlos Dunga. And he would not have gone toe-to-toe with Paul Scholes and Carrick and won. Perhaps his role in the destruction of United will put an end to the ill-considered, rambling sound bites of Green – and many others – in the media. Perhaps it will end the rumbling of discontent among those Liverpool fans who believe Jay Spearing – who did not stand out against League One Leeds, let alone Premier League Sunderland, and has not played for England’s under-21s, much less Brazil’s senior team – is the better player.

Then again, perhaps not. That’s the thing about band wagons. It’s hard to get off them.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport....#

by **kazza** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:35 pm

You can feck off as well andy, how about you ignore my posts and then you will not have to go through the misery. I said it was sad that after a great win SOME chose to find fault (a perfectly ligitimate statement). I did not mention names or quote anyone so where is the problem. Mick comes on defensive so I respond. I did not swear or insult so why the agro.

I am sick of explaining myself because Mick has a little nickname for his mates and they seem to think he is the b0llox (take "the" out of the sentence and it will be more accurate). When you ignore my posts you do not see what I write so do it you "meff"

By the way look up the word objective

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:42 pm

Kazza - I think what andy is trying to say it looks like your only posting to have a barny with Mick and you seem a bit obsessed with what he posts - everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter what it is - you can choose to ignore it or debate it but it seems your only interested in what BigMick says . Try getting involved in other areas of the forum and other threads as opposed to just Bigmicks posts - that way it will show your not just here to ding dong with Mick. Just a bit of friendly advice .

by **andy_g** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:55 pm

kazza wrote:You can feck off as well andy, how about you ignore my posts and then you will not have to go through the misery. I said it was sad that after a great win SOME chose to find fault (a perfectly ligitimate statement). I did not mention names or quote anyone so where is the problem. Mick comes on defensive so I respond. I did not swear or insult so why the agro.

I am sick of explaining myself because Mick has a little nickname for his mates and they seem to think he is the b0llox (take "the" out of the sentence and it will be more accurate). When you ignore my posts you do not see what I write so do it you "meff"

By the way look up the word objective

well that's me told

by **LFC2007** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:58 pm

Mick will be along shortly to pronounce the absolute truth on the matter.

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