Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:00 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's not about being proven correct, that doesn't even come into it.

.

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:09 pm

bigmick wrote:
dave82 wrote:i always believe that we can win the league until it's mathematically impossible,that is the liverpool spirit and any true fan knows this

Well I always beleive we CAN win the league until it's mathematically impossible as well, in the same sense as Bolton CAN still win it this season. Somewhere in between CAN, WILL, SHOULD and ABSOLUTELY CANNOT though, are different degrees of likelyhood.

Despite myself I find it interesting sometimes to discuss on here the likelyhood of certain scenarios. As the results come in, the tides shift and with them do your opinions. From CAN, to WON'T to POSSIBLY CAN BUT PROBABLY WON"T can all happen within the space of a couple of weeks.

It all probably means I'm not a true fan for daring to consider such things, but I just can't help it.

Mick hes a kid mate any true fan would see that :laugh:

by **LFC2007** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:10 pm

bigmick wrote:At the end of the day, if you don't wish to discuss my feelings on where we are likely to finish, nor my reasoning for coming to the conclusions I have, then don't bring the subject up in the first place . Seems pretty straight forward to me.

One argument that such a good performance does expose as being nonsense of course is the notion that we can't possibly compete with these top teams. Whether it be because we are either a) outgunned financially b) stymied by boardroom shenanighans or c) simply not good enough it doesn't matter, all three prongs of the arguement are incorrect.

'Overreactions' he says, because one game proves nothing and yet here, the Messiah himself decries as 'nonsense' broad notions about Rafa's performance as manager from just the one game. Still, fusing a sensible argument with a ridiculous one can have the desired effect at times; that, though, doesn't make it any less fallacious.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:11 pm

bigmick wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
bigmick wrote:One argument that such a good performance does expose as being nonsense of course is the notion that we can't possibly compete with these top teams. Whether it be because we are either a) outgunned financially b) stymied by boardroom shenanighans or c) simply not good enough it doesn't matter, all three prongs of the arguement are incorrect.

We are at least the equal of the Manchester United team which took the field at Anfield, and much the better team when Gerrard plays. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever as far as i can see that we shouldn't set our aim at the very least of finishing above them this season. That's sometimes the trouble with excuses, you wheel them out when you need them but on the occasions that you don't, they're shown up for being nonsense.

This idea could be taken and abused to make Rafa a victim of his own success. What if it was only possible for us to beat them because of his incredible managing skills? Also, this also means that Rafa did do a good job at buying players because he bought a team that can beat the Mancs in three straight league games.

All managers and clubs are "victims of their own success" though Joe. If you manage Wigan, as long as you keep them up then everyone is reasonably happy. That's because that's their place in the grand scheme of things. Obviously, if you manage of the big four clubs, the expectation is different.

In our case, we narrowly missed out on winning the title last season. The team which finished above us sold the best player in the World, let Carlos Tevez go and replaced them with Valencia from Wigan, and owen on a free. Rafa is a victim of his own success in the sense that I think it's reasonable for us to expect to make a good go of finishing above the Mancs this season. We've already demonstrated that we are their equal at the very least, so why not?

As for Rafa's "incredible managerial skills" being a significant factor in us winning, I've no doubt that is the case. To pick the team up and produce that performance was an excellent effort, and he deserves all the praise in the World. That the manager is capable of such feats shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, we know he is. Ultimately though, a league season is over 38 games not 1, and often it is the ability to not make mistakes, to get the basics right, to grind it out which eventually decides who is and who isn't Champions.

And as far as the buying of players, the building of the team is concerned, I agree wholeheartedly. We have an excellent and expensively compiled football team, I've been saying the same thing for three seasons now. It didn't take a good performance against man Utd to prove that to me, we have shown many times that we are capable of playing some really excellent stuff. Just as the manager deserves huge credit for putting the bunch of players togehter though, it is legitimate to ask and expect him to ensure that the group plays somewhere near its capabilities consistently.

Nothing would be sillier of course in the aftermath of the excellent performance agains tthe Mancs to say "it's nothing to do with Rafa. he gets no credit, it's all down to the players and the owners". That would be a ludicrous stance, and of course nobody would ever take that tack .

No, I'm with John Craig. The manager deserves the credit when they turn in a performance like that. He deserves credit when the team challenges for the title or wins trophies. That's absolutely the way it should be, and obviously the same applies in reverse.

What is so frustrating is that we all know we can produce performances like that. But we dont. When we went on a run from February and came within touching distance of the title last season it was as if Rafa had said "just go out and smash them" or words to that effect. Why he doesnt do this all the time is the most baffling thing for me. If he wasnt so stubborn we could probably win the league. Sadly though this is not the case. As you said its 38 games and although yesterday was the best thing weve seen in months its probable that it may not happen again for a while

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:23 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:At the end of the day, if you don't wish to discuss my feelings on where we are likely to finish, nor my reasoning for coming to the conclusions I have, then don't bring the subject up in the first place . Seems pretty straight forward to me.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:24 pm

Dazzer wrote:
Sabre wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Reg wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
phil_cool wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
Dazzer wrote:I personaly think fans that protect managers can do more harm then good most of time so reg think about that

Care to explain how those fans make more harm than good?

And what do you mean by tarnish and discredit, sentences like the one you wrote in the first page?

Thank you Dazzer.

Here ya go have a read.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discredit

O and thanks for welcome Hi right back at ya.

Yeh, I know what it means. But just as it's not right to call someone names because he doesn't trust in the manager, a thing that it's pretty normal in a football fan, it's not right what you said about people who "protects" the manager.

It's only fair, because at the end of the day we're all fans. Respect is a thing that must go both ways

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:27 pm

What he said. Just recently I agree with just about every post Sabre makes. I'm not sure whether that'll make him feel uneasy or not, I'm not even sure I feel totally at ease with it myself to be honest

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:34 pm

bigmick wrote:What he said. Just recently I agree with just about every post Sabre makes. I'm not sure whether that'll make him feel uneasy or not, I'm not even sure I feel totally at ease with it myself to be honest

I feel just the same as when you disagree me, it's not important. What's important for me is what I've learned about the club and other posters these years.

Forget the fúcking sides! Let's bury the anti/pro sides with the newkit glitch!

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:41 pm

Forgive me my attack of loveness but Liverpool won 2-0, my local team commands the way back to primera division, and I have a stupid smile in my face.

I just have been watching the highlights of yesterday and the goal of Torres, for what, 10 times?

Even with the sound very high to hear the yeaaaah of the crowd

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:54 pm

Never mind the yeaaah Sabes theres gonna be a good few thousand fans with sore shins , knees the lot, batterd an bruised celebrating , well worth it though, Supporting this team gives you aches an pains mate :laugh:

im gonna be buying shares in deep heat soon :laugh:

by **lakes10** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:00 pm

bavlondon wrote:Rafa is our manager and he isn't going anywhere.

Mods can you set up a seperate sub forum for all the anti Rafa people? Maybe rename one of the other areas that don't get used much.

yep re name the one that was "premierships titles won under Rafa"

sorry Bav mate

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:15 pm

GET OUT OF OUR THREAD
GET OUT OF OUR THREAD
YOU RAFA BASHER
GET OUT OF OUR THREAD

lAKES GET OUT OF OUR THREAD
:laugh:

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:17 pm

NANNY RED wrote:GET OUT OF OUR THREAD
GET OUT OF OUR THREAD
YOU RAFA BASHER
GET OUT OF OUR THREAD

lAKES GET OUT OF OUR THREAD

Fair play Nan that got me

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:22 pm

he should definately stay till the end of the season.
in my opinion sammy would be a disaster and fear he wouldnt have the respect of the big players and would have less pull in the transfer market for big signings.
he is a great liverpool legend and should remain at the club,but at his current position.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:23 pm

Definitely a trick I suggest to other happy clappies like me for the days of reading a lot of stick to the manager (last weeks), is taking a Nanny post, going to her signature, and watch that big banner and that big crowd.

It puts things in perspective, and then you come back to discuss the opinions as what they are, opinions.

The support that matters is in Nanny's picture.

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