Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:32 am

Kerry07 wrote:Last year we lost 2 times in the league, this year we've lost 5 and its October 25th. What amuses me is someone mentioned that Lucas played at OT in the 4-1... so he cant be .

I can see why fivecups has lapped up your post, but it contains factual errors and is still only conjecture. We've only lost 4 in the league so there is a factual error, but you are also conjecturing as to the cause of the problems, or in the case of the manc game, bypassing midfield.

Kerry07 wrote:Back on topic...people question our defence. LUNACY !. This is the same defence that has kept more clean sheets than any other over the last 5 years. The difference this year is WHATS NOW INFRONT OF THEM.

Pure conjecture, it is the loss of possession and defensive errors. Clean sheets don't equate to points, whether or not we've kept more clean sheets than Chelsea, Man Utd, both or neither, I'd rather have their two or three league titles to our zilch. And Reina didn't win the golden glove last season so in fact your conjecture that this season is somehow different is immediately weakened. But that aside, the defence is weak from set-pieces and how is that down to the midfield?!?!? I think 'LUNACY' is trying to blame the goals we do concede on the midfield holding pair alone - or 'what's infront' of the defence.

Even last season we conceded too many sloppy goals, trying to construct some case against Lucas based on conjecture is laughable. Even if Mascherano weren't the main holding midfielder, rated by many on here as "world class", the number of times the midfield would directly lead to a conceded goal is small because there should still be at least three men between the ball and goal.

Most who are relatively neutral in the case against Lucas will acknowledge that our CBs have been poor this season, that zonal marking is something that is there to be exploited and has been, and yes, Alonso is missed, but is that reason that a supposedly good enough team to accumulate 86 points should suddenly become a four defeats on the bounce side?!?!?!?

Even last season we struggled at times, no more than five wins in a row in the league since 05/06 - and that included Alonso in the side prior to this season. Perhaps if Rafa had been a little better of a manager he wouldn't have triggered all this off by trying to sell Alonso last season to bring in Barry. Or at least if he insisted on making that move, making sure he could get Barry before putting Alonso's future in question.

Sure you could blame a lack of goals on Lucas and the midfield, but the defence itself has not shone. Also we've lost six games this season, in those six defeats we've only scored three goals. And to put the stats about clean sheets back in your face, we scored the most goals in the Premiership last season and didn't win it, only Chelsea and Arsenal have scored more than us this season, Chelsea having played one more game, and we're 8th not 3rd. Stats don't always tell the whole picture which is why generally they are for guidance. The one liner stats annoy me, they contain so little information they are too easily quoted and misquoted by people who didn't even check them out or research them in the first place. It's what you get from commentators and pundits, someone else does the work and they quote them. Quite often there is a lot more to the stats and one liners are the most common to be misleading

Premiership Goals

27 Arsenal (P9, position 4th)
24 Chelsea (P10, position 1st)
22 Liverpool (P9, position 8th)
21 Man Utd (P9, position 2nd)
21 Tottenham (P10, position 3rd)

Lucas Scapegoat

by **fivecups** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:58 am

Owzat wrote:I can see why fivecups has lapped up your post, but it contains factual errors and is still only conjecture. We've only lost 4 in the league so there is a factual error, but you are also conjecturing as to the cause of the problems, or in the case of the manc game, bypassing midfield.

Bit pedantic on the 'factual error' Owzat?

Also, is it conjecture or opinion? I don't think they're passing it off as facts.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:33 pm

He had a great game yesterday.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:35 pm

Yep - spot on mate - had carrick and scholes constantly harrased and mugged them many times - great energetic creative game from him

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:37 pm

Sir Roger wrote:He had a great game yesterday.

Got to admit he did a good game. Like all the team. In the first half he wasn't spot on in the last pass especially in a play that gave the ball to kuyt and stopped Kuyt's run, and probably he should have given it to Torres.

But all in all I think his game was more than good.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:38 pm

I think that ball to kuyt was the right option just kuyt got it a bit stuck under his feet .

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:39 pm

Lucas was boss yesterday , best game in an LFC shirt.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:I think that ball to kuyt was the right option just kuyt got it a bit stuck under his feet .

IMHO he should have given it on front of Kuyt, if you look at Kuyt he stops running in order to do the control.

It's true Torres would have done better, but the pass was improvable.

However, with all the heart pumping, I might have got it wrong, I think I'll enjoy the game again mate, I needed a victory.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:01 pm

I think either option would have made sense, I think the Kuyt option seemed like the easier pass, but it did not have the proper weight. If he would have gotten that right (and then we scored from it), or his shot when the ball fell to him on the corner kick, I think he would have had a legendary type of game. But I would still say it was very good.

Aquilani and Gerrard to come back to fitness soon. Lucas might get dropped as soon as he gets some confidence.

by **Reg** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:06 pm

With masher suspended and ongoing injuries there´ll be work for Lucas, dont worry.

I was very pleased to see him play so well yesterday, not often you see a LFC midfield comprised of 2 Brazilians, an Argentine and an Israeli yet play so much in an English style of high speed footbal with constant commitment and hassling of the opposition midfield. Well done everyone.

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:06 pm

JoeTerp wrote:I think either option would have made sense, I think the Kuyt option seemed like the easier pass, but it did not have the proper weight. If he would have gotten that right (and then we scored from it), or his shot when the ball fell to him on the corner kick, I think he would have had a legendary type of game. But I would still say it was very good.

I agree this. And if I have to be fair with Lucas, I have to admit that before the pass, he was the culprit of stealing the ball that preceded the pass.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:07 pm

I think Aquilani will still be a little while yet Joe - he may be on the bench for the Fulham game but I would think it'd be another week after that (at least) before he can be considered properly as a starter. Until then I suppose you might have a bit of a dilemma as to whether or not to keep Lucas in, or when Gerrard returns to fitness (presumably by the Fulham game), whether to drop him.

by **Zidane** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:16 pm

Thought he played really well and if he were just a bit more skilled he would have had an amazing game. Had plenty of opportunities to do something but always seemed to come up just a tad short with the end result. Still though he's a good squad player and works his tail off throughout the game. He's had a great season so far imo but like Sabre said he isn't good enough to start for us day in day out and his mentality just isn't right his confidence is still shaky and it doesn't seem like he believes in himself yet.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:26 pm

I was speaking more generally and long term than just the next week or two. Of course by then he could be playing like cr@p anyway

by **Octsky** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:22 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Lucas was boss yesterday , best game in an LFC shirt.

without bias or prejudice, I think Lucas was pretty avg.
He is not "hard" as a CM would be, infact he was quite lightweighted in the centre, allowing manyoos to ghost through on a few occasion.
He missed (off targets) 2 shots in which Scholes or Gerrard would have buried.
Silly foul on Rooney at the edge of the box near the end of the game. Luckily, manyoo has Nani instead of Ronaldive or Beckham as free kick takers.
Plus points, he show great stamina pressing mancs from the start and get forward to pass to Ngog for the final nail in the coffin.

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