Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:04 pm

I voted very good job, and I think that he'll prove wrong those journos that said that we were too Alonso dependant.

Without that meaning that I'm not worried because we've achieved 0 titles in the last seasons and we have to win something ASAP.

by **bigmick** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:07 pm

Aren't they normally over two legs though these ties

There's a lot of info there baldy, it might just have been easier to talk about who has knocked us out over the last couple of seasons and how we've faired in ties against English teams. I know we came back from the dead to beat Arsenal, but I think I'm right in saying that each time we've ran into Chelsea recently we've gone out. I'll leave it with you though.

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:14 pm

bigmick wrote:Aren't they normally over two legs though these ties There's a lot of info there baldy, it might just have been easier to talk about who has knocked us out over the last couple of seasons and how we've faired in ties against English teams. I know we came back from the dead to beat Arsenal, but I think I'm right in saying that each time we've ran into Chelsea recently we've gone out. I'll leave it with you though.

OK since 12 is too many lets try the five times we've played English opposition in a knockout stage.

04/05 Liverpool beat Chelsea 1-0 on aggregate.
06/07 Liverpool beat Chelsea on penalties.
07/08 Liverpool beat Arsenal 5-3 on aggregate.
07/08 Chelsea beat Liverpool 4-3 on aggregate.
08/09 Chelsea beat Liverpool 7-5 on aggregate.

So over the two leg affairs we've won 3 and lost 2. In other words we win more than we lose, maybe to suit your argument it would have been better to stick to each fixture individually.

by **bigmick** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:24 pm

But on the last two occasions we've been in the competition, Chelsea have put us out (if I'm reading it right). Meanwhile, we managed to put Arsenal out once. This is why I made my original statement. I'll put it again for you:

"but once we do our recent record is not so sparkling. Usually we run into an English team, and usually we get beat."

Back with you Baldy I think.

by **bigmick** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:36 pm

The vote is exactly like you would expect with Rafa.

15 people think he is doing a very good or extremely good job, 14 people think he is doing an average job or worse.

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:36 pm

So you're judging Rafa's Liverpool record in Europe on the last two seasons? OK, forget the other three which included two finals we're judging it on two years.

Still according to you English teams must reach the last 8. We did on both occasions. We've went out to an own goal from Riise and possibly the worst performance from a Rafa Benitez Liverpool side in Europe in the first leg of the 08/09 tie.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:48 pm

I posted this in another thread, but I think it adds a little weight to Micks argument :-

Another Champions League group stage, another predictable set of results. That is how many football followers feel as Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal prepare for the first of six matches that, barring a repeat of the catastrophic form shown by Sir Alex Ferguson's side four years ago, will lead to qualification for the last 16 with the minimum of fuss.

United's ignominious elimination in 2006 remains the only occasion in the previous four seasons that any of the eight clubs drawn from pot one have failed to make it to the last 16. In the same period only nine of the 32 second seeds have suffered an early exit. Such statistics add weight to the theory that the group stage has become an over-hyped spectacle where inflating bank balances, rather than providing genuine competition, is the driving force.

There certainly appears little prospect of genuine competition this time around. With the draw having been so kind to the four Premier League clubs it is tempting to wonder whether their managers will be in a position to treat the competition like the Carling Cup and experiment with line‑ups when qualification has been achieved with a few games to spare. Ferguson has already suggested that Owen Hargreaves might make a return from long-term injury in United's final three group matches.

Much depends on how much importance is given to topping the group and picking up another slice of the financial cake. This season the 32 clubs involved in the group stage will receive £483,000 for turning up for each match and a further £703,000 for victory. Little wonder Europe's premier clubs are happy to continue with a protracted format that leaves most fans wishing they could press the fast-forward button to February, when the knock-out stage begins.

"It is getting a bit like [a procession], but that's what they [the big clubs] wanted, I suppose," said Frank Clark, the vice-chairman of the League Managers Association, and a European Cup winner as a player with Nottingham Forest in 1979. "The competition grew and grew at the behest of the big clubs, who didn't want to take the chance of being knocked out in the first round. I'm not one to harp back but it was a real knock-out competition back then. You had to get through a two-legged game or you were out.

"But anything that is prolonged and stretched out into a mini-league makes it more likely that the bigger clubs will get through. That's an inevitable consequence of the way it's set up. Whether that's better or worse is subjective. My own feeling is that it's worse. You find that a lot of games in the group become meaningless. It's the same with the old Uefa Cup, which is now [as the Europa League] a total mish-mash. Both European competitions have been devalued."

Reservations about the group stage have deepened this season because of the calibre of opposition that United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool will face over the next three months. Anyone wanting to place a bet on any one of the four English clubs qualifying for the last 16 will need to put down £20 to win £1, odds that are about as attractive as some of the group games, including the Hungarian side Debrecen's visit to Anfield.

Not that everyone is dismissive of the group stage. The former Liverpool striker Ian Rush argues that the current format affords clubs from smaller countries, like Debrecen, the first Hungarian side to play in the competition for 14 years, an opportunity to improve their revenue streams.

"If you look at it from the point of view of the Hungarian side, they will make a lot of money out of playing Liverpool and reaching the group stages," said Rush, who won the European Cup with Liverpool in 1984. "That will enhance them and give them a chance of being the top club in their league for the next few years and then they have to try to expand on that if they want to be better in the Champions League in the future."

It is an argument, however, that makes the Champions League sound a little bit like a glorified domestic cup competition, at least until the knock-out business begins. Perhaps then we will see United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool getting their hands dirty.

"It's been proved over the last four or five years how strong the English clubs are," said Rush. "You have almost got to be unlucky not to qualify for the quarter-finals."

GUARDIAN

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:20 am

bigmick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa's part of the furniture now, like Wenger is to Arsenal, Fergie is to Man U, it would be hard to imagine our club with out him.

Anyone thinking or hoping that he will be leaving anytime soon needs to get them thoughts out of their head.

He wont be going anywhere for a very long time.

I agree with that totally. For one thing we couldn't afford to get rid even if we wanted to. He's at Liverpool for another three years at least I think, even if we don't actually win anything.

My guess is though that this season we will win something. I don't think it will be the league, but my guess is that it will be either the FA Cup or the Carling Cup.

We are certainly due a decent run in one of the domestic cups as our results over the last 3 years have been terrible.

League cup

2006/7 - 5th round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 5 games in 3 years

FA CUP

2006/7 - 3rd round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 3 games in 3 years, with all 3 wins against lower division sides (Luton after a replay, Havant after going behind twice, Preston)

by **maguskwt** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:04 am

considering there's no option for he's "doing a good job" (IE less choices for pro-rafa's than anti-rafa's) rafa is doing pretty well on the faithometer...

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:38 am

Okay, who voted for 5? :angry:

by **maguskwt** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:53 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5?

Heimdall...

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:12 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5?

I did just to get angry little goblins like your self crazy mad. :laugh:

Of course I don't think he should be sacked but number 5 was looking so lonely. :eyebrow

by **Sir Roger** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:30 pm

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa's part of the furniture now, like Wenger is to Arsenal, Fergie is to Man U, it would be hard to imagine our club with out him.

Anyone thinking or hoping that he will be leaving anytime soon needs to get them thoughts out of their head.

He wont be going anywhere for a very long time.

I agree with that totally. For one thing we couldn't afford to get rid even if we wanted to. He's at Liverpool for another three years at least I think, even if we don't actually win anything.

My guess is though that this season we will win something. I don't think it will be the league, but my guess is that it will be either the FA Cup or the Carling Cup.

We are certainly due a decent run in one of the domestic cups as our results over the last 3 years have been terrible.

League cup

2006/7 - 5th round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 5 games in 3 years

FA CUP

2006/7 - 3rd round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 3 games in 3 years, with all 3 wins against lower division sides (Luton after a replay, Havant after going behind twice, Preston)

Rafas priorities are:

Champions league
Qualifying for champions league
Premiere league
Fa cup
Carling cup

by **Greavesie** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:06 pm

Dazzer wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5?

I did just to get angry little goblins like your self crazy mad.

Of course I don't think he should be sacked but number 5 was looking so lonely.

people like this render these polls a little pointless

by **Effes** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:17 pm

Judge wrote:
Effes wrote:
GYBS wrote:Is this poll just for this season or rafas reign as a whole ?!?

This season - good job

Overall Pretty good job .

You've missed out pretty good aswell Judge!

eff off effes

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