Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:03 am

maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

don't make the thread out to be what it's not lakes... this thread is about which players we shouldn't have sold on hindsight which might have improved our squad depth or made the transition a little smoother.

Besides if you wanna go there according to that same website, total buys is 210 millions, total sales is 139 millions which makes out to be 71 millions spent over 5 seasons, 14.2 million per season.

That said mate, I think in the purchases column that's not including add ons. In the sales column, I think that is including add ons. Either that or its the other way around anyway.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:08 am

I'm not sure about that bigmick. The add-ons will be hard to quantify as of this moment because they haven't happened yet. But aquilani's fees stated seem to have the add-ons included because we didn't pay the stated 20 millions...so I believe the list includes whatever add-ons that they managed to quantify...

by **lakes10** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:11 am

maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

don't make the thread out to be what it's not lakes... this thread is about which players we shouldn't have sold on hindsight which might have improved our squad depth or made the transition a little smoother.

Besides if you wanna go there according to that same website, total buys is 210 millions, total sales is 139 millions which makes out to be 71 millions spent over 5 seasons, 14.2 million per season.

Still stands that Rafa has had 210 million to spend on a team yet this year we dont have a bench.

dont look like he has been building a team to me, more like taking one apart this year.

In thruth there are loads of players that he has sold that should still be at the club, this year we could pay the price for it.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:24 am

lakes10 wrote:In thruth there are loads of players that he has sold that should still be at the club, this year we could pay the price for it.

why this is the opportunity for you to list them... and yet you listed only 8 out of 70 plus players one of which included Darren Potter

...and no reasons for those 8 players either... 3 of them is in my list though so I give you that...

by **lakes10** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:27 am

maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:In thruth there are loads of players that he has sold that should still be at the club, this year we could pay the price for it.

why this is the opportunity for you to list them... and yet you listed only 8 out of 70 plus players one of which included Darren Potter ...and no reasons for those 8 players either... 3 of them is in my list though so I give you that...

lol in truth my my sister called me on my webcan as i was doing the list so i just posted it as it was lol.

lol sometimes real life gets in the way of our forums pmsl.

and now i must go and do my farm on farmvill (facebook lol)

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:32 am

lakes10 wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:In thruth there are loads of players that he has sold that should still be at the club, this year we could pay the price for it.

why this is the opportunity for you to list them... and yet you listed only 8 out of 70 plus players one of which included Darren Potter ...and no reasons for those 8 players either... 3 of them is in my list though so I give you that...

lol in truth my my sister called me on my webcan as i was doing the list so i just posted it as it was lol.

lol sometimes real life gets in the way of our forums pmsl.

and now i must go and do my farm on farmvill (facebook lol)

right... and sometimes virtual farming gets in the way of our forums... :Oo:

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:38 am

Bast@rds

I spent ages making my list and now find we are talking about other things

Harry Kewell - I know most won't agree with me but I think he is different class to Babel or even Riera and certainly a vast improvement on Leto, Gonzales and Dossena.

Riise - After a few very good seasons he went through a bad patch (probably because his marriage broke up and he finished up almost bankrupt) that went on for too long, but if we could have persevered maybe he could have pulled through.

Crouch - Not sure there was anything we could have done to keep him, but certainly the way we treated him didn't help, and I don't think anyone would argue that he would come in handy.

Sissoko - Another who went through a bad patch after a couple of bad injuries and losing his automatic place, and couldn't seem to pull through it. On his day he was the most destructive ball winner in the game. Starred in the FA Cup final , against Barca and in the Charity shield against Chelsea.

Owen - I always felt we could have done more to keep him, and maybe a bit like with Gerrard we didn't show just how much we wanted him to stay soon enough.

Murphy - I always thought he was underated and that he could have done a good job for us. Moved on much too soon IMO.

My own feeling is that its not so much the few players that we could have kept thats the problem, More that its the NUMBER of players in and out. I think it causes players to become unsettled and affects team spirit. Even Alonso who has said very little bad about his time here said something about it.

I also think that some players find Rafa's critical approach difficult to cope with when they are going through a bad patch. Some players like Gerrard or Torres who are ultra confident can handle it , others less secure (and less talented) like Riise, Sissoko found it more difficult to prevent it affecting their confidence and their game.

by **lakes10** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:49 am

maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:In thruth there are loads of players that he has sold that should still be at the club, this year we could pay the price for it.

why this is the opportunity for you to list them... and yet you listed only 8 out of 70 plus players one of which included Darren Potter ...and no reasons for those 8 players either... 3 of them is in my list though so I give you that...

lol in truth my my sister called me on my webcan as i was doing the list so i just posted it as it was lol.

lol sometimes real life gets in the way of our forums pmsl.

and now i must go and do my farm on farmvill (facebook lol)

right... and sometimes virtual farming gets in the way of our forums...

lol and my life, bloody games get addictive, i even know some that stay up till 3am if theu will have crops ready at that time...its mad lol

anyway back to topic.........

2 years ago i was sure we had the team to win the prem, we had a good bench as well, last year was still strong but we started to let a few go like crouch and i think this hurt us sometime late in the games.

by **GYBS** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:27 am

DIdnt warnock leave because he was second choice behind riise then Rafa brought in Aurelio ?

Pennant ?!? Really ?!

Potter ?!

Owen ? was it anything to do with Rafa ? was it not with GH the problems with him not signing a new contract ?

Kewell ?! really ? Permantly injured despite his talent ? how more chances should he of got ?!

Sissoko ?! how many ball winners do we need ? he was not going to get a game due to masher arriving and being better

Crouch agree - wish we had kept him as back up -

Murphy good shout who would be back up .

by **Sir Roger** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:54 am

bigmick wrote:As long as Rafa is at Liverpool, I have been convinced for some time now that there will never ever be sustained, unarguable success (Ferguson or Mournho in his Chelsea heyday style) which will shut the anti's up once and for all, but equally there will always be enough achievement, the big wins here and there, the big nights, a sprinkling of the odd trophy to keep the pro's well and truly interested.

Nah feck it lets talk about rotation

I agree with you
I have said many times we will not win the league with Rafa (I hope I'm wrong btw)
I dont believe he buys or plays bad players per se. I just believe hes not that good a man manager who can get the best out of his players. Babel is a prime example. Doubtless talent and potential but weak as fuc'k in reality.
The players we have now should be capable of winning the league. If they are not that is down to Rafa plain and simple.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:10 am

IF there was a way we could have kept them I'd have hung onto

Alonso, an obvious one of course, although if we had kept him we wouldn't have had the cash to buy Johnson which in turn might have meant we'd have had to try and hang onto Arbeloa, unless of course we'd raised the money by unloading Mascherano (instead of Alonso).

Warnock, a more than handy squad player, in the present squad I'd rate him on a par with Insua, (Aurellio's my first choice LB)

Crouch, almost criminal that he was virtually driven out of the club, after leaving us goalwise he again proved his scoring ability at Portsmouth and he'll get another bag full with Spurs this season.

Garcia, drove me mad at times but loved him for the magic he sometimes produced, a bit of a luxury perhaps but imo worth it.

If we still had those players I'd say we were on again for another credible tilt at the title.

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:59 am

Crouch without a doubt. Scored goals everywhere.
People will say well he wasnt happy to be on the bench behind Torres i would say, he had a contract Rafa should have said 'we need you there are lots of games and you will play in plenty'
Not exactly first choice at spurs is he ?
Bellamy is another i would have kept and its not because he scored 2 last week against united, its because he is a good player. He will graft his a'se off for the team and is always hard to play against. Also if he was on the bench he could change the game.
Pongolle - top player, and he has bulked up now. Pace to burn and a good touch on him. Cant believe he is not rated higher by some fans.
Murphy - went for next to nothing and although he lacks pace he is a very intelligent player with great delivery from set pieces. Could easily be a squad player here.
Warnock - might be limited but would still be a mile better than Dossena. Determined player with a good engine. Again could easily be a squad player here.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:08 pm

bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:12 pm

More stories about Owen

Houllier left on May 2004 - Rafa joined June 2004 - Owen left in August 2004
Rafa met with the three England players(Gerrard,Owen and Carra) at the Euro 2004 and left them all "unimpressed" .... ref Carra's book.

Gerrard then became interested in moving to Chelsea.

There had been instances at Liverpool over the years of players being asked why they had not signed a new contract...... only to be informed that they had NEVER ACTUALLY BEEN OFFERED ONE. Ref Fowlers book.

Owen always insisted that he had never been offered a new contract.

Rafa had Owen under contract for a minimum of 15months, He could have gambled on Owen staying at Liverpool by playing him in the CL...... HE DIDN'T. It would have cost Liverpool nothing ...... his price would certainly NOT have dropped any further, but it might well have deterred Madrid.

He could have argued (like he did with Crouch) that unless we got a reasonable offer Owen WAS STAYING...... He didn't.

He could have insisted that Owen saw out his contract at Liverpool, and gambled that Owen would not want to leave a successful team. After all it was the lack of success that had unsettled both Gerrard and Owen in the first place.

Owen went on tour to USA with Liverpool still negotiating a new contract.

Owen was unhappy that after scoring a great goal against Roma, Rafa was critical of his game..... Ref Carra's book.

Rafa gave him the ultimatum to "sign or be sidelined because he needed committed players"

Owen only decided to go to Real Madrid while ON THE TOUR and AFTER the game against Roma (3/8/2004) .....Ref Carra's book.

If Rafa had decided to keep Owen, would he really have left a club that had just won the CL and in a World cup year?

Personally I have always believed that if a player really wants to go ...... let him, but only after you have explored every avenue. I honestly don't believe that was the case with Owen.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:16 pm

The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

errrrrr... how was he treated like :censored:

?

Baros is a player who excelled with his national team mates but who failed to be equally successful in his clubs. Because he is very one dimensional... he annoys me even more than Garcia did because he always puts his head down and run without being aware of what's happening on other parts of the pitch... I didn't really like Cisse but I believe that Cisse is a much better player than Baros was...

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Players rafa should have kept - Which could've strengthened our squad

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