Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

I decided to go through the list of players that rafa sold to see which players IMO we should have kept. Based on this list found on http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp ( don't know if it is a good source or not but it'll do for this discussion).

Transfers In

Player Signed Cost Came from
Fernando Torres   July 2007  20,200,000    Atletico Madrid   
Alberto Aquilani    August 2009    20,000,000    AS Roma   
Robbie Keane July 28 2008    19,000,000    Tottenham Hotspur   
Glen Johnson 22 June 2009    17,500,000    Portsmouth   
Ryan Babel July 2007    11,500,000    Ajax   
Xabi Alonso August 20th 2004    10,750,000    Real Sociedad   
Dirk Kuyt August 18 2006    9,000,000    Feyenoord   
Albert Riera September 1 2008    8,000,000    Espanyol   
Andrea Dossena July 2008    8,000,000    Udinese   
Peter Crouch July 20th 2005    7,000,000    Southampton   
Lucas Leiva 11 May 2007    6,750,000    Gremio   
Jermaine Pennant July 26 2006    6,700,000    Birmingham City   
Martin Skrtel 11 January 2008    6,500,000    Zenit St Petersburg   
Craig Bellamy July 1st 2006    6,000,000    Blackburn Rovers   
Luis Garcia August 20th 2004    6,000,000    Barcelona   
Jose Reina July 4th 2005    6,000,000    Villareal   
Dan Agger January 2006    5,800,000    Brondby   
Mohammed Sissoko July 2005    5,600,000    Valencia   
Fernando Morientes January 2005    5,500,000    Real Madrid   
Yossi Benayoun July 2007    5,000,000    West Ham United   
Diego Cavalieri July 2008    4,000,000    Palmeiras   
Alvaro Arbeloa January 31 2007    2,600,000    Deportivo La Coruna   
Sebastian Leto July 2007    2,500,000    Lanus   
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) July 2004    2,000,000    CD Malaga   
Gabriel Paletta July 1st 2006    2,000,000    Banfield   
David Ngog July 24 2008    1,500,000    Paris St Germain   
Sotirios Kyrgiakos 21 August 2009    1,500,000    AEK Athens   
Mark Gonzalez July 4th 2005    1,500,000    Albacete   
Scott Carson January 21st 2005    750,000    Leeds United   
Mikel San Jose July 2007    270,000    Athletic Bilbao   
David Martin January 2006    250,000    MK Dons   
Antonio Barragan July 4th 2005    240,000    Sevilla   
Besian Idrizaj August 2005    190,000    Linzer ASK   
Jack Hobbs August 2005    150,000    Lincoln City   
Alex Cooper January 2008    100,000    Ross County   
Alexander Kacaniklic June 2007    75,000    Helsingborgs   
Dani Pacheco July 2007    0    Barcelona   
Mihail Alexandrov July 2007    0    CSKA Sofia   
Nikolay Mihaylov July 2007    0    Levski Sofia   
Marvin Pourie July 2007    0    Borussia Dortmund   
Vincent Lucas Weijl July 2008    0    AZ Alkmaar   
Chris Mavinga July 8 2009    0    Paris St Germain   
Gary Mackay Steven June 2007    0    Ross County   
Nicolaj Beier Kohlert July 2009    0    Esbjerg fB   
Ryan Flynn July 2006    0    Trainee   
Charles Itandje August 2007    0    Lens   
Ryan Crowther July 2007    0    Stockport County   
Victor Palsson January 2009    0    AGF Arhus   
Nikola Saric July 2008    0    Herfolge   
Philipp Degen July 1 2008    0    Borussia Dortmund   
Hakan Duyan June 2008    0       
Lauri Dalla Valle January 2008    0    Jippo   
Vitor Flora September 1 2008    0    Botafogo FC   
Daniel Ayala July 2007    0    Sevilla   
Gerardo Bruna September 2007    0    Real Madrid   
Damien Plessis August 2007    0    Lyon   
Peter Gulacsi 1 September 2008    0    MTK Hungaria   
Emmanuel Mendy July 23 2008    0    Murcia Deportivo   
Andras Simon 27 May 2007    0    MTK Hungaria   
Krisztian Nemeth 27 May 2007    0    MTK Hungaria   
Godwin Antwi August 2005    0    Real Zaragoza   
Javier Mascherano January 2007    0    West Ham United   
Miki Roque August 2005    0    Llieda   
Nabir El Zhar June 2006    0    St Etienne   
Mark Smyth June 2004    0    Trainee   
Jay Smith July 2005    0    Trainee   
Stephen Darby July 2006    0    Trainee   
Craig Lindfield July 2006    0    Trainee   
Adam Hammill January 2006    0    Trainee   
Danny Guthrie July 2005    0    Trainee   
Paul Anderson January 2006    0    Hull City   
Lee Peltier July 2005    0    Trainee   
Fabio Aurelio July 5 2006    0    Valencia   
Jan Kromkamp January 2006    0    Villareal   
Boudewijn Zenden July 4th 2005    0    Middlesbrough   
Mauricio Pellegrino January 2005    0    Valencia   
Robbie Threlfall July 2006    0    Trainee   
David Mannix July 2004    0    Trainee   
Dave Roberts July 2006    0    Trainee   
Andriy Voronin July 2007    0    Bayer Leverkusen   
Robbie Fowler January 2006    0    Manchester City   
Ryan Wilkie July 2005    0    Trainee   
Calum Woods January 2006    0    Trainee   
Paul Willis July 2005    0    Trainee   
Danny O'Donnell July 2005    0    Trainee   
Ramon Calliste August 2005    0    Manchester United   
Steve Irwin July 2008    0    Trainee   
Martin Kelly August 2007    0    Trainee   
Ronald Huth January 2007    0    Tacuary FC   
Jordy Brouwer January 2007    0    Ajax   
Francisco Manuel Duran January 2007    0    Malaga   
Emiliano Insua January 2007    0    Boca Juniors   
Ray Putterill June 2007    0    Trainee   
Martin Hansen June 2007    0    Trainee   
Jay Spearing June 2007    0    Trainee   
Antonio Nunez August 2004    0    Real Madrid



Transfers Out

Player Signed Cost Left for
Xabi Alonso 5 August 2009    30,000,000    Real Madrid   
Robbie Keane February 1 2009    15,000,000    Tottenham Hotspur   
Peter Crouch July 2008    11,000,000    Newcastle United   
Mohammed Sissoko January 29 2008    8,200,000    Juventus   
Michael Owen August 2004    8,000,000    Real Madrid   
Craig Bellamy July 2007    7,500,000    West Ham United   
Milan Baros August 2005    6,500,000    Aston Villa   
Djibril Cisse July 2007    6,000,000    Marseille   
Luis Garcia July 2007    4,000,000    Atletico Madrid   
John Arne Riise June 2008    4,000,000    AS Roma   
Scott Carson July 18 2008    4,000,000    West Bromwich Albion   
Alvaro Arbeloa 29 July 2009    3,500,000    Real Madrid   
Mark Gonzalez July 2007    3,500,000    Real Betis   
El Hadji Diouf June 2005    3,500,000    Bolton Wanderers   
Chris Kirkland January 2007    3,500,000    Wigan Athletic   
Fernando Morientes May 2006    3,100,000    Valencia   
Florent Sinama-Pongolle May 2007    2,700,000    Recreativo Huelva   
Danny Murphy August 2004    2,500,000    Charlton Athletic   
Danny Guthrie July 2008    2,250,000    Newcastle United   
Alou Diarra June 2005    2,000,000    Lens   
Djimi Traore August 2006    2,000,000    Charlton Athletic   
Antonio Nunez August 2005    2,000,000    Celta Vigo   
Jan Kromkamp August 2006    2,000,000    PSV Eindhoven   
Stephen Warnock January 2007    1,200,000    Blackburn Rovers   
Antonio Barragan August 2006    680,000    Deportivo La Coruna   
Neil Mellor August 2006    500,000    Preston North End   
Paul Anderson June 30 2009    250,000    Nottingham Forest   
Darren Potter January 2007    250,000    Wolverhampton Wanderers   
Danny O'Donnell June 2007    100,000    Crewe Alexandra   
Ramon Calliste May 2006    0    Released   
Gary Mackay Steven June 2009    0       
Miki Roque June 2009    0    Released   
Robbie Foy May 2006    0    Released   
Mark Smyth June 2005    0    Accrington Stanley   
Jay Smith December 2007    0    Stockport County   
Marvin Pourie January 2009    0    Schalke   
Craig Lindfield August 2009    0    Released   
Adam Hammill August 2009    0    Barnsley   
Ryan Crowther August 2009    0    Released   
Besian Idrizaj 31 January 2008    0    Wacker Tirol   
Sebastian Leto 1 JUly 2009    0    Panathinaikos   
Gregory Vignal July 2005    0    Portsmouth   
Paul Willis May 2006    0    Released   
Calum Woods May 2006    0    Dunfermline   
Ryan Wilkie May 2006    0    Released   
Ronald Huth June 2009    0       
Robbie Fowler June 2007    0    Released   
Dave Roberts June 2007    0    Released   
David Mannix January 2007    0    Released   
Godwin Antwi June 2009    0    Released   
Jack Hobbs May 2009    0    Leicester City   
Carl Medjani July 2006    0    L'Orient   
Mauricio Pellegrino June 2005    0    CD Alaves   
Igor Biscan June 2005    0    Panathinaikos   
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) January 2006    0    Villareal   
Jerzy Dudek June 2007    0    Released   
Patrice Luzi July 2005    0    Released   
Jon Otsemobor June 2005    0    Rotherham United   
John Welsh January 2006    0    Hull City   
Anthony Le Tallec 1 July 2008    0       
Steve Finnan September 1 2008    0    Espanyol   
Harry Kewell June 2008    0    Galatasaray   
Salif Diao January 2007    0    Stoke City   
David Raven July 2006    0    Carlisle United   
Markus Babbel July 2004    0    VFB Stuttgart   
Paul Harrison June 2005    0    Wolverhampton Wanderers   
Richie Partridge June 2005    0    Sheffield Wednesday   
Zak Whitbread June 2006    0    Millwall   
Lee Peltier 31 January 2008    0    Yeovil Town   
Gabriel Paletta August 2007    0    Boca Juniors   
Jermaine Pennant July 1 2009    0    Released   
Dietmar Hamann July 2006    0    Bolton Wanderers   
Sami Hyypia 30 June 2009    0    Bayer Leverkusen   
Vladimir Smicer June 2005    0    Bordeaux   
Boudewijn Zenden June 2007    0    Marseille   
Stephane Henchoz January 2005    0    Celtic   
Bruno Cheyrou July 2006    0    Rennes   


Apologies the list is abit hard to read but I didn't want to spend hours re-arranging it. When deciding on the players that Rafa should have kept I did not include Xabi  and Hyppia who were big losses as it was the players who wanted to leave and there is nothing much you can do if a player is unhappy and wanted to move. I would've also put Dietmar Hamann in as he could still peform for us when we first sold him but then again we had many midfielders back then and it seemed a logical choice.

IMO these are the players Rafa should have kept and who could've strengthened our team squad:

Craig Bellamy - as shown by his peformances for City he's a decent back-up striker even though he's not really top 4 club material

Luis Garcia - very annoying to watch sometimes but he scores goals and bring unpredictability. A big game peformer

John Arne Riise - maybe it was time for him to move on. But our current LB's are not much improvement from Riise. Besides I never really did have much problems for his so called defensive incapabilities plus he scored goals.

Sinama Pongolle - a young player who was up for it whenever he played. Would've been interesting to see how he developed. Certainly has better attitude than Babel.

Steve Finan - was a very polished right back and Arbeloa wasn't much improvement from Finan. Glen Johnson is an improvement but I would rather have an aging Finan as back-up than injury prone Degan.



So it's 5 players out of 70 odd players sold or shipped out... I don't think Rafa did too bad here. I'm sure some of you will have your own list of players who we should've kept... so your thoughts pls...

[Number 9]

What a load of shi'te...Bellamy does fuc'k all,then scores two against the scum,chins one and hes' a player??Dont think so!

Luis..Yeah I loved him at times but put him against Fulham in mid winter and you just knew his head was on a beach drinking sangria!LACKED COMMITMENT

Riise..the most one footed player ever to play,great left but might as well had a salmon for a right

Pongo......Nothing better than what we have,just cause he scores in a sh,it League does not make him a good player........In fact,it just highlights the fact that the EPL is great and Platini can do one!

Finnan...was past it,maybe he went a season too early...he actual did!


My two that Rafa should not have let go are Hyypia and Xabi.................2 red legends!!
Did he do enough to keep them?NO
BUT at the end of the day..if you are at LFC and you want to go...so be it,their loss!

[aCe']

Warnock
Finnan
Sissoko
Pennant
L.Garcia
Keane
Crouch

for different reasons...

[bigmick]

It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

[maguskwt]

My two that Rafa should not have let go are Hyypia and Xabi.................2 red legends!!
Did he do enough to keep them?NO
BUT at the end of the day..if you are at LFC and you want to go...so be it,their loss!

Xabi was a man-management mistake by Rafa, once whatever happened two seasons ago happened there was no turning back... Hyppia was such a professional and gave us so many years of service. If he wanted to go because he's not experiencing 1st team football then it is only fair we let him go.

I'm talking about players we shouldn't have any problems keeping but instead sold because we decided to move on and as a consequence resulted in weak areas. Particular positions are the full backs and forwards. This is all hind sight and I'm not particularly knocking Rafa. Instead I'm saying he's only made a few mistakes in terms of selling players. But if we kept the 5 that I highlighted our squad would have been abit more solid... or there can be a smoother transition especially when it comes to the full backs.

[Number 9]

It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

Warnock was sold 2 years before Dossena was thought about Mick and sometimes I love you!

[Ciggy]

Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

[bigmick]

It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

Warnock was sold 2 years before Dossena was thought about Mick and sometimes I love you!

Yeah sometimes I love you too Baz, (not sure what I did to deserve the love but I'll take it while I can get it ).

[maguskwt]

Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

have not seen it...

well let's talk about rotation then?    or how Rafa is destroying MY club by being defensive and not treating players well? 

[lakes10]

Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

[bigmick]

Lets talk about the very real possibility of us blowing out early the league but winning the Carlng Cup Wouldn't that be just a perfect way to polarise the forum once again into the "Fecks sake one carling Cup in four seasons" and ""Now we've started winning trophies anythings possible" camps  .

As long as Rafa is at Liverpool, I have been convinced for some time now that there will never ever be sustained, unarguable success (Ferguson or Mournho in his Chelsea heyday style) which will shut the anti's up once and for all, but equally there will always be enough achievement, the big wins here and there, the big nights, a sprinkling of the odd trophy to keep the pro's well and truly interested.

Nah feck it lets talk about rotation   

[lakes10]

Darren Potter
Keane
Crouch
L.Garcia
Warnock
Finnan
John Arne Riise
Danny Murphy

[bigmick]

Darren Potter? Feck me Lakes and he's the first one on your list as well. What about the bloke who got shot up the erse?

[maguskwt]

Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

don't make the thread out to be what it's not lakes... this thread is about which players we shouldn't have sold on hindsight which might have improved our squad depth or made the transition a little smoother.

Besides if you wanna go there according to that same website, total buys is 210 millions, total sales is 139 millions which makes out to be 71 millions spent over 5 seasons, 14.2 million per season.

[maguskwt]

Darren Potter? Feck me Lakes and he's the first one on your list as well. What about the bloke who got shot up the erse?

is he Harry Potter's cousin?