Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:19 am

I decided to go through the list of players that rafa sold to see which players IMO we should have kept. Based on this list found on http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp ( don't know if it is a good source or not but it'll do for this discussion).

Transfers In

Player Signed Cost Came from
Fernando Torres July 2007 20,200,000 Atletico Madrid
Alberto Aquilani August 2009 20,000,000 AS Roma
Robbie Keane July 28 2008 19,000,000 Tottenham Hotspur
Glen Johnson 22 June 2009 17,500,000 Portsmouth
Ryan Babel July 2007 11,500,000 Ajax
Xabi Alonso August 20th 2004 10,750,000 Real Sociedad
Dirk Kuyt August 18 2006 9,000,000 Feyenoord
Albert Riera September 1 2008 8,000,000 Espanyol
Andrea Dossena July 2008 8,000,000 Udinese
Peter Crouch July 20th 2005 7,000,000 Southampton
Lucas Leiva 11 May 2007 6,750,000 Gremio
Jermaine Pennant July 26 2006 6,700,000 Birmingham City
Martin Skrtel 11 January 2008 6,500,000 Zenit St Petersburg
Craig Bellamy July 1st 2006 6,000,000 Blackburn Rovers
Luis Garcia August 20th 2004 6,000,000 Barcelona
Jose Reina July 4th 2005 6,000,000 Villareal
Dan Agger January 2006 5,800,000 Brondby
Mohammed Sissoko July 2005 5,600,000 Valencia
Fernando Morientes January 2005 5,500,000 Real Madrid
Yossi Benayoun July 2007 5,000,000 West Ham United
Diego Cavalieri July 2008 4,000,000 Palmeiras
Alvaro Arbeloa January 31 2007 2,600,000 Deportivo La Coruna
Sebastian Leto July 2007 2,500,000 Lanus
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) July 2004 2,000,000 CD Malaga
Gabriel Paletta July 1st 2006 2,000,000 Banfield
David Ngog July 24 2008 1,500,000 Paris St Germain
Sotirios Kyrgiakos 21 August 2009 1,500,000 AEK Athens
Mark Gonzalez July 4th 2005 1,500,000 Albacete
Scott Carson January 21st 2005 750,000 Leeds United
Mikel San Jose July 2007 270,000 Athletic Bilbao
David Martin January 2006 250,000 MK Dons
Antonio Barragan July 4th 2005 240,000 Sevilla
Besian Idrizaj August 2005 190,000 Linzer ASK
Jack Hobbs August 2005 150,000 Lincoln City
Alex Cooper January 2008 100,000 Ross County
Alexander Kacaniklic June 2007 75,000 Helsingborgs
Dani Pacheco July 2007 0 Barcelona
Mihail Alexandrov July 2007 0 CSKA Sofia
Nikolay Mihaylov July 2007 0 Levski Sofia
Marvin Pourie July 2007 0 Borussia Dortmund
Vincent Lucas Weijl July 2008 0 AZ Alkmaar
Chris Mavinga July 8 2009 0 Paris St Germain
Gary Mackay Steven June 2007 0 Ross County
Nicolaj Beier Kohlert July 2009 0 Esbjerg fB
Ryan Flynn July 2006 0 Trainee
Charles Itandje August 2007 0 Lens
Ryan Crowther July 2007 0 Stockport County
Victor Palsson January 2009 0 AGF Arhus
Nikola Saric July 2008 0 Herfolge
Philipp Degen July 1 2008 0 Borussia Dortmund
Hakan Duyan June 2008 0
Lauri Dalla Valle January 2008 0 Jippo
Vitor Flora September 1 2008 0 Botafogo FC
Daniel Ayala July 2007 0 Sevilla
Gerardo Bruna September 2007 0 Real Madrid
Damien Plessis August 2007 0 Lyon
Peter Gulacsi 1 September 2008 0 MTK Hungaria
Emmanuel Mendy July 23 2008 0 Murcia Deportivo
Andras Simon 27 May 2007 0 MTK Hungaria
Krisztian Nemeth 27 May 2007 0 MTK Hungaria
Godwin Antwi August 2005 0 Real Zaragoza
Javier Mascherano January 2007 0 West Ham United
Miki Roque August 2005 0 Llieda
Nabir El Zhar June 2006 0 St Etienne
Mark Smyth June 2004 0 Trainee
Jay Smith July 2005 0 Trainee
Stephen Darby July 2006 0 Trainee
Craig Lindfield July 2006 0 Trainee
Adam Hammill January 2006 0 Trainee
Danny Guthrie July 2005 0 Trainee
Paul Anderson January 2006 0 Hull City
Lee Peltier July 2005 0 Trainee
Fabio Aurelio July 5 2006 0 Valencia
Jan Kromkamp January 2006 0 Villareal
Boudewijn Zenden July 4th 2005 0 Middlesbrough
Mauricio Pellegrino January 2005 0 Valencia
Robbie Threlfall July 2006 0 Trainee
David Mannix July 2004 0 Trainee
Dave Roberts July 2006 0 Trainee
Andriy Voronin July 2007 0 Bayer Leverkusen
Robbie Fowler January 2006 0 Manchester City
Ryan Wilkie July 2005 0 Trainee
Calum Woods January 2006 0 Trainee
Paul Willis July 2005 0 Trainee
Danny O'Donnell July 2005 0 Trainee
Ramon Calliste August 2005 0 Manchester United
Steve Irwin July 2008 0 Trainee
Martin Kelly August 2007 0 Trainee
Ronald Huth January 2007 0 Tacuary FC
Jordy Brouwer January 2007 0 Ajax
Francisco Manuel Duran January 2007 0 Malaga
Emiliano Insua January 2007 0 Boca Juniors
Ray Putterill June 2007 0 Trainee
Martin Hansen June 2007 0 Trainee
Jay Spearing June 2007 0 Trainee
Antonio Nunez August 2004 0 Real Madrid

Transfers Out

Player Signed Cost Left for
Xabi Alonso 5 August 2009 30,000,000 Real Madrid
Robbie Keane February 1 2009 15,000,000 Tottenham Hotspur
Peter Crouch July 2008 11,000,000 Newcastle United
Mohammed Sissoko January 29 2008 8,200,000 Juventus
Michael Owen August 2004 8,000,000 Real Madrid
Craig Bellamy July 2007 7,500,000 West Ham United
Milan Baros August 2005 6,500,000 Aston Villa
Djibril Cisse July 2007 6,000,000 Marseille
Luis Garcia July 2007 4,000,000 Atletico Madrid
John Arne Riise June 2008 4,000,000 AS Roma
Scott Carson July 18 2008 4,000,000 West Bromwich Albion
Alvaro Arbeloa 29 July 2009 3,500,000 Real Madrid
Mark Gonzalez July 2007 3,500,000 Real Betis
El Hadji Diouf June 2005 3,500,000 Bolton Wanderers
Chris Kirkland January 2007 3,500,000 Wigan Athletic
Fernando Morientes May 2006 3,100,000 Valencia
Florent Sinama-Pongolle May 2007 2,700,000 Recreativo Huelva
Danny Murphy August 2004 2,500,000 Charlton Athletic
Danny Guthrie July 2008 2,250,000 Newcastle United
Alou Diarra June 2005 2,000,000 Lens
Djimi Traore August 2006 2,000,000 Charlton Athletic
Antonio Nunez August 2005 2,000,000 Celta Vigo
Jan Kromkamp August 2006 2,000,000 PSV Eindhoven
Stephen Warnock January 2007 1,200,000 Blackburn Rovers
Antonio Barragan August 2006 680,000 Deportivo La Coruna
Neil Mellor August 2006 500,000 Preston North End
Paul Anderson June 30 2009 250,000 Nottingham Forest
Darren Potter January 2007 250,000 Wolverhampton Wanderers
Danny O'Donnell June 2007 100,000 Crewe Alexandra
Ramon Calliste May 2006 0 Released
Gary Mackay Steven June 2009 0
Miki Roque June 2009 0 Released
Robbie Foy May 2006 0 Released
Mark Smyth June 2005 0 Accrington Stanley
Jay Smith December 2007 0 Stockport County
Marvin Pourie January 2009 0 Schalke
Craig Lindfield August 2009 0 Released
Adam Hammill August 2009 0 Barnsley
Ryan Crowther August 2009 0 Released
Besian Idrizaj 31 January 2008 0 Wacker Tirol
Sebastian Leto 1 JUly 2009 0 Panathinaikos
Gregory Vignal July 2005 0 Portsmouth
Paul Willis May 2006 0 Released
Calum Woods May 2006 0 Dunfermline
Ryan Wilkie May 2006 0 Released
Ronald Huth June 2009 0
Robbie Fowler June 2007 0 Released
Dave Roberts June 2007 0 Released
David Mannix January 2007 0 Released
Godwin Antwi June 2009 0 Released
Jack Hobbs May 2009 0 Leicester City
Carl Medjani July 2006 0 L'Orient
Mauricio Pellegrino June 2005 0 CD Alaves
Igor Biscan June 2005 0 Panathinaikos
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) January 2006 0 Villareal
Jerzy Dudek June 2007 0 Released
Patrice Luzi July 2005 0 Released
Jon Otsemobor June 2005 0 Rotherham United
John Welsh January 2006 0 Hull City
Anthony Le Tallec 1 July 2008 0
Steve Finnan September 1 2008 0 Espanyol
Harry Kewell June 2008 0 Galatasaray
Salif Diao January 2007 0 Stoke City
David Raven July 2006 0 Carlisle United
Markus Babbel July 2004 0 VFB Stuttgart
Paul Harrison June 2005 0 Wolverhampton Wanderers
Richie Partridge June 2005 0 Sheffield Wednesday
Zak Whitbread June 2006 0 Millwall
Lee Peltier 31 January 2008 0 Yeovil Town
Gabriel Paletta August 2007 0 Boca Juniors
Jermaine Pennant July 1 2009 0 Released
Dietmar Hamann July 2006 0 Bolton Wanderers
Sami Hyypia 30 June 2009 0 Bayer Leverkusen
Vladimir Smicer June 2005 0 Bordeaux
Boudewijn Zenden June 2007 0 Marseille
Stephane Henchoz January 2005 0 Celtic
Bruno Cheyrou July 2006 0 Rennes

Apologies the list is abit hard to read but I didn't want to spend hours re-arranging it. When deciding on the players that Rafa should have kept I did not include Xabi and Hyppia who were big losses as it was the players who wanted to leave and there is nothing much you can do if a player is unhappy and wanted to move. I would've also put Dietmar Hamann in as he could still peform for us when we first sold him but then again we had many midfielders back then and it seemed a logical choice.

IMO these are the players Rafa should have kept and who could've strengthened our team squad:

Craig Bellamy - as shown by his peformances for City he's a decent back-up striker even though he's not really top 4 club material

Luis Garcia - very annoying to watch sometimes but he scores goals and bring unpredictability. A big game peformer

John Arne Riise - maybe it was time for him to move on. But our current LB's are not much improvement from Riise. Besides I never really did have much problems for his so called defensive incapabilities plus he scored goals.

Sinama Pongolle - a young player who was up for it whenever he played. Would've been interesting to see how he developed. Certainly has better attitude than Babel.

Steve Finan - was a very polished right back and Arbeloa wasn't much improvement from Finan. Glen Johnson is an improvement but I would rather have an aging Finan as back-up than injury prone Degan.

So it's 5 players out of 70 odd players sold or shipped out... I don't think Rafa did too bad here. I'm sure some of you will have your own list of players who we should've kept... so your thoughts pls...

by **Number 9** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:40 am

What a load of shi'te...Bellamy does fuc'k all,then scores two against the scum,chins one and hes' a player??Dont think so!

Luis..Yeah I loved him at times but put him against Fulham in mid winter and you just knew his head was on a beach drinking sangria!LACKED COMMITMENT

Riise..the most one footed player ever to play,great left but might as well had a salmon for a right

Pongo......Nothing better than what we have,just cause he scores in a sh,it League does not make him a good player........In fact,it just highlights the fact that the EPL is great and Platini can do one!

Finnan...was past it,maybe he went a season too early...he actual did!

My two that Rafa should not have let go are Hyypia and Xabi.................2 red legends!!
Did he do enough to keep them?NO
BUT at the end of the day..if you are at LFC and you want to go...so be it,their loss!

by **aCe'** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:47 am

Warnock
Finnan
Sissoko
Pennant
L.Garcia
Keane
Crouch

for different reasons...

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:36 am

It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:27 am

Number 9 wrote:My two that Rafa should not have let go are Hyypia and Xabi.................2 red legends!!
Did he do enough to keep them?NO
BUT at the end of the day..if you are at LFC and you want to go...so be it,their loss!

Xabi was a man-management mistake by Rafa, once whatever happened two seasons ago happened there was no turning back... Hyppia was such a professional and gave us so many years of service. If he wanted to go because he's not experiencing 1st team football then it is only fair we let him go.

I'm talking about players we shouldn't have any problems keeping but instead sold because we decided to move on and as a consequence resulted in weak areas. Particular positions are the full backs and forwards. This is all hind sight and I'm not particularly knocking Rafa. Instead I'm saying he's only made a few mistakes in terms of selling players. But if we kept the 5 that I highlighted our squad would have been abit more solid... or there can be a smoother transition especially when it comes to the full backs.

by **Number 9** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:29 am

bigmick wrote:It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

Warnock was sold 2 years before Dossena was thought about Mick and sometimes I love you!

by **Ciggy** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:41 am

Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:47 am

Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's a good thread but I'm glad you started it and not me. In nearly all cases though, even when moving a player on looks like a mistake on todays evidence (with Bellamy being a classic example), there were reasons behind the move. He had just tried to cave Riise's head in with a seven iron so you couldn't really blame the manager for selling him on for a profit. I think Bellamy is more of an example of a player who is flourishing now he is being given a proper opportunity, and now he has a manager who believes in him. This is consistently an area where Rafa falls down I think, much more so than in mistakes he has alledgedly made in sales.

Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad. That doesn't necessarily mean that we were wrong to sell them though, although it does probably mean we haven't signed very good replacements despite many attempts. Equally, although the likes of Sissoko is obviously a far better player than Lucas, he was stagnating at the time and probably angled for the move, ditto Crouch.

No, for me the biggest mistake in selling a player (and it isn't even that big really) was Steven Warnock. He was a far better player than Dossena is now, even back then, and obviously these days is in a different stratosphere. I didn't like that decision on many levels, not least because it showed a reluctance to show any kind of faith and patience in a local player. By and large though, I wouldn't complain too much about the sales, it's more the quality of the buys and the subsequent handling of them that would stir me up a bit.

Warnock was sold 2 years before Dossena was thought about Mick and sometimes I love you!

Yeah sometimes I love you too Baz, (not sure what I did to deserve the love but I'll take it while I can get it

).

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:48 am

Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

have not seen it...

well let's talk about rotation then?

or how Rafa is destroying MY club by being defensive and not treating players well? :glare:

by **lakes10** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:52 am

Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:53 am

Lets talk about the very real possibility of us blowing out early the league but winning the Carlng Cup

Wouldn't that be just a perfect way to polarise the forum once again into the "Fecks sake one carling Cup in four seasons" and ""Now we've started winning trophies anythings possible" camps

.

As long as Rafa is at Liverpool, I have been convinced for some time now that there will never ever be sustained, unarguable success (Ferguson or Mournho in his Chelsea heyday style) which will shut the anti's up once and for all, but equally there will always be enough achievement, the big wins here and there, the big nights, a sprinkling of the odd trophy to keep the pro's well and truly interested.

Nah feck it lets talk about rotation :laugh:

by **lakes10** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:55 am

Darren Potter
Keane
Crouch
L.Garcia
Warnock
Finnan
John Arne Riise
Danny Murphy

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:57 am

Darren Potter? Feck me Lakes and he's the first one on your list as well. What about the bloke who got shot up the erse?

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:59 am

lakes10 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

whys that Ciggy, is it due that it backs up members views thar Rafa has had loands of money and spent it badly in a lot of cases?

don't make the thread out to be what it's not lakes... this thread is about which players we shouldn't have sold on hindsight which might have improved our squad depth or made the transition a little smoother.

Besides if you wanna go there according to that same website, total buys is 210 millions, total sales is 139 millions which makes out to be 71 millions spent over 5 seasons, 14.2 million per season.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:02 am

bigmick wrote:Darren Potter? Feck me Lakes and he's the first one on your list as well. What about the bloke who got shot up the erse?

is he Harry Potter's cousin?

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Players rafa should have kept - Which could've strengthened our squad

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