Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:48 pm

Ok, if you gave explicit instruction to each player to fix their starting point in those positions to adhere to as rigidly as possible, then you could claim they were different systems, but most of the time that's not how it works and for good reason.

In all three of them, Gerrard would be playing further forward than Masch. In option 4, Benayoun would be more of a drifter between the lines, and wouldn't do as much tracking back - Gerrard would though, because that's one of his main strengths, so the result would be two equivalent systems of play. Unless as I say, you choose to tell Benny to alter his natural game and play as the fulcrum of the attack alongside Gerrard, which just isn't his game, so why would you?

The final option would end up with more or less the same pattern as 2 and 4, Kuyt would come deep because that's his natural game.

You'd see:

<---Kuyt -->

Torres

more than (or as much as) you'd see:

Torres Kuyt

by **Bammo** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:12 pm

You have to assume they'd follow instructions. If they didn't then formations wouldn't matter at all. Gerrard would always play further forwards, Benny would always drift infield, Kuyt would always play inside right.

Assume (even if it's just for this poll) that players do as they're told!

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:05 pm

I'm disppointed there's no "others" option as unsurprisingly that is the one I would have gone for. Given the fact that we have no striker cover whatsoever on the bench should Torres get injured, we really do need to find someone from within the ranks who could potentially do the job. I'd like to see the only player we have who could potentially do it as of now given a go, and in these upcoming winnable matches I'd pair babel alongside and off Torres. I'd do it with a bit of conviction, leaving him in for a few matches regardless of how awful he is.

Kuyt needs to stay where he is and redisover the ability to do a job there (because he's been poor this season so far IMHO) whereas Benayoun has gone off the boil and is more credible as cover for wide midfielders anyway. N'Gog is a mile away from being good enough, so that leaves Babel. He wouldn't be the first right footed centre forward who isn't that good on the left wing (they aren't all Thierry Henri) and we might as well give him a go before we flog him. As things stand, we can't afford Torres to get injured so at least having someone as an alternative will give us the facility to bring him off with half an hour to go sometimes.

So it's "others" for me. Gerrard replacing the hapless Lucas, Babel up top and the team otherwise unchanged.

by **Effes** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:17 pm

bigmick wrote:So it's "others" for me.

Might have known.

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:18 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm disppointed there's no "others" option as unsurprisingly that is the one I would have gone for. Given the fact that we have no striker cover whatsoever on the bench should Torres get injured, we really do need to find someone from within the ranks who could potentially do the job. I'd like to see the only player we have who could potentially do it as of now given a go, and in these upcoming winnable matches I'd pair babel alongside and off Torres. I'd do it with a bit of conviction, leaving him in for a few matches regardless of how awful he is.

Kuyt needs to stay where he is and redisover the ability to do a job there (because he's been poor this season so far IMHO) whereas Benayoun has gone off the boil and is more credible as cover for wide midfielders anyway. N'Gog is a mile away from being good enough, so that leaves Babel. He wouldn't be the first right footed centre forward who isn't that good on the left wing (they aren't all Thierry Henri) and we might as well give him a go before we flog him. As things stand, we can't afford Torres to get injured so at least having someone as an alternative will give us the facility to bring him off with half an hour to go sometimes.

So it's "others" for me. Gerrard replacing the hapless Lucas, Babel up top and the team otherwise unchanged.

Isnt that option #5 though....
Wouldnt mind seeing Babel uptop for a game or two but id much rather have Kuyt up there ahead of him... Benny is very good player and i think with Gerrard dropping back in the middle we'd need the sort of player who would get on the ball in the spaces behind midfielders and ahead of defenders, Benny does that when he drifts in, connects well with the players around him higher up, Kuyt doesnt.. With Johnson bombing down the right side, it makes even more sense having Benny down the right flank ahead of Kuyt in a 4-4-2...

by **Greavesie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:19 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm disppointed there's no "others" option as unsurprisingly that is the one I would have gone for. Given the fact that we have no striker cover whatsoever on the bench should Torres get injured, we really do need to find someone from within the ranks who could potentially do the job. I'd like to see the only player we have who could potentially do it as of now given a go, and in these upcoming winnable matches I'd pair babel alongside and off Torres. I'd do it with a bit of conviction, leaving him in for a few matches regardless of how awful he is.

Kuyt needs to stay where he is and redisover the ability to do a job there (because he's been poor this season so far IMHO) whereas Benayoun has gone off the boil and is more credible as cover for wide midfielders anyway. N'Gog is a mile away from being good enough, so that leaves Babel. He wouldn't be the first right footed centre forward who isn't that good on the left wing (they aren't all Thierry Henri) and we might as well give him a go before we flog him. As things stand, we can't afford Torres to get injured so at least having someone as an alternative will give us the facility to bring him off with half an hour to go sometimes.

So it's "others" for me. Gerrard replacing the hapless Lucas, Babel up top and the team otherwise unchanged.

theres always bloody one :angry:

by **Bammo** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:33 pm

Too many options...not enough options...

I knew I should have made this vote only

It's interesting that at the moment 2 strikers is in the lead. I wonder if that's because people want a more attacking formation or if it's due to the over-reliance on Torres. I'd much rather we sacrificed 1 of the DM for either an AM or Striker against the weaker teams.

by **Greavesie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:43 pm

There's no problem in relying on Torres. We only really have a problem if he faces a long spell on the sidelines, other than that he's the way to go every time. We haven't looked particularly awful in attack so far. It's defensively we've been shocking. We've scored in every game we've played in so far

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:56 pm

Greavesie wrote:There's no problem in relying on Torres. We only really have a problem if he faces a long spell on the sidelines, other than that he's the way to go every time. We haven't looked particularly awful in attack so far. It's defensively we've been shocking. We've scored in every game we've played in so far

There's a lot of games through the course of a season though mate. Even arch anti rotationers like me recognise that you need to be able to bring people off as sub to give them a rest, as well as leaving them out when you draw Dagenham and Redbridge at Home in the cup.

Equally, given the fact he's going to be playing Internationals as well (and bare in mind the World Cup is at the end of the season, how many players are going to want to run themselves into the ground?), he's going to be putting a lot of miles on the clock. the chances of him staying totally injury free, no niggles, no strains, no Knocks, are about zero I should think.

As far as Baabel is concerned we're probably being forced into using him soon I think, in the sense that we haven't got anyone else and nobody wants to buy him. He does at least have some potential in there although admittedly he keeps it well disguised.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:05 pm

option 1 for me with Lucas dropping to the bench once Aquilani is available.

by **Oakesy8** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:24 pm

Clearly a Masher/Gerrard is the only option and play 442.

The Alonso money should have gone on a top class striker who can play NOW and not in 3 months time. Instead Rafa stuck to his usual short-sighted stubbornness by sticking to this 4231 set up that only worked BECAUSE of Alonso. Failing to buy up front has cost us the title this season. Does Rafa really think recalling the porn star outcast from 12 months ago as back up to Torres is really going to win us the league?
Erm..NO!

by **fivecups** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:33 pm

Went for option 1. Although the midfield hasn't clicked yet I think Aquilani is more of a box to box player like Lucas than a deep lying playmaker like Alonso. We've got some very winnable matches coming up and I think we need to try and get the players used to playing without Alonso in the side so that Aquilani will settle in better when he reaches fitness. I thought there was some improvement in the performance against Bolton although we still looked far from the team of late last season. We've generally been better over the years when we've shown more continuity in players and formation. Also, dropping Stevie back breaks up the most potent attacking force in the Premiership. Hopefully we can settle on a fit duo of centre backs as well - continuity there is vitally important.

I wouldn't be disappointed to see us drop Stevie back and playing Yossi in the hole however overall I'd go for option 1.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:47 am

Bammo wrote:You have to assume they'd follow instructions. If they didn't then formations wouldn't matter at all. Gerrard would always play further forwards, Benny would always drift infield, Kuyt would always play inside right.

Assume (even if it's just for this poll) that players do as they're told!

They matter, obviously - each position is by definition an instruction, but at the same time it's pointless trying to curb the natural movements of certain players with dogged instruction when it doesn't suit them. If you were to tell Gerrard to 'sit' next to Masch, for example, he probably wouldn't unless you gave him a 'you move you die' speech, so the formation where he is as a 'DM' isn't the best approximation of where he'd actually be under normal circumstances - he'd be more further forward as a general rule. Besides how would Gerrard 'sitting' and Benayoun playing as the fulcrum of our attack maximise the resources we have at our disposal? An option for lunatics?

So, under sensible guidance, Gerrard would end up playing further forward than Masch. The fourth option is a better approximation, but in reality again Benayoun would generally play a higher, drifting/penetrating role, off of Torres, not sitting next to Gerrard.

Anyway, my option would be:

Masch

Gerrard
Kuyt Riera

Benayoun

Torres

Kuyt and Benny can switch if necessary.

by **Judge** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:17 am

shoot lucas

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:32 am

I can't help but think we have missed a trick this summer. So Rafa fancies Aquilani and let's hope that he turns out to be a top player. But....when you look at the likes of Cattermole (£6m) moving from Wigan to Sunderland you can't help but think we have missed out. For not a lot of money we could have picked up a reasonably well established EPL player who is a real genuine young english prospect who would slot into the CM position alongside Mascha and allow Gerrard the role that he excels in. I am not saying Cattermole is by any means a natural replacement for Alonso (as I don't think there are any out there) but he would do a good job for LFC and is one for the future.

Then...when we have Aquilani fit we have 4 x CM's in Aquilani, Mascha, Cattermole and Lucas to cover 2 positions.

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