Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:45 am

heimdall wrote:I think Rafa is an appalling man-manager.

I find this sort of statement baffling. Man-management is one area that we - as outsiders - are least qualified to assess, since it's an inherently personal aspect of the job. By that I mean we have a very limited insight into how he relates to his players and the effect his side of the relationship has on the performances of those individuals, and by extention, the team. I don't see sufficient basis for arriving at such a definitive judgment. If there are strong grounds to argue he's an 'appalling man manager' then I'd really like to hear them.

by **TheLad** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:20 am

heimdall wrote:
TheLad wrote:
aCe' wrote:yea... hopefully it happens much sooner than that... dont give a rats as$ if Rafa defended hiim or not....in our current system with his current position, the guy is nowhere near good enough... until Aquilani is back, him being in the side WILL cost us points unless we decide to change our formation or setup a little...

Utter bull*** imo. He is young, he is getting better, is in the brasil national team, he has some 10 more years to play at top level, why judge him so early, he deserves some more respect from the fans ffs.

Hey if you polish that turd hard enough it just might turn into gold one day.

Yes, I would polish that "turd" for a few more games, let's get back to this issue at the end of the season, see what you will have to say then. Try to be positive once and support the boys that are working their socks off during the games. Lucas is certainly one of them.

by **RedRoots** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:34 am

heimdall wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:
"Lucas has a very good mentality. But for someone of his age to suffer such criticism from the experts on TV is wrong," Benitez claimed.

"He is so good but still he was criticised. I do not understand why they do not criticise other players, more senior players, when they do not play well.

"He is an easy target and maybe they are not brave enough to criticise the bigger players here."

Rafa telling the tv pundits they know fúck all about football

dropping some truth bombs on their as.ses

ra ra ra, so all pundits are idiots are they or do they just tell an inconvenient truth sometimes?

Yes this Lucas thing proves that Rafa is an excellent man-manager, backing a sh1t player what a guy!!

So Rafa is defending and instilling confidence in a young player in a responsible position with a big weight on his shoulders and it's bad man management?

Who should he instill confidence in then? Gerrard? Torres? hmm something makes me thing he'd be wasting his time there.

It's true Rafa has had some issues with man-management before but how you can find something bad in what he is doing here is mind-boggling.

by **akumaface** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:35 am

If given the choice, would you play Lucas ahead of Aquilani or Alonso...The answer is a big NO. Lucas plays there simply because we don't have anybody else and doesn't mean he is good enough. When we play better opponents, he is being exposed at his position as he just couldn't hold on to the ball like Alonso or Hamann can (just to show what we need for that position and you may argue Rafa had put him there and is not Lucas fault). Also, he doesn't have the vision to make any creative pass. All he does is making 10 yards pass backwards and to his closest man left or right. I think he might play better at cover for right back since he doesn't need to be as creative.

by **TheLad** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:01 am

akumaface wrote:If given the choice, would you play Lucas ahead of Aquilani or Alonso...The answer is a big NO. Lucas plays there simply because we don't have anybody else and doesn't mean he is good enough. When we play better opponents, he is being exposed at his position as he just couldn't hold on to the ball like Alonso or Hamann can (just to show what we need for that position and you may argue Rafa had put him there and is not Lucas fault). Also, he doesn't have the vision to make any creative pass. All he does is making 10 yards pass backwards and to his closest man left or right. I think he might play better at cover for right back since he doesn't need to be as creative.

You are comparing Lucas to Alonso ffs, they have an age difference of 5 years, Alonso playing for LFC many years. What is more absurd, that Aquilani hasn't put on the red shirt yet, you probably didn't see him much playing, and even if he was good at Roma it doesn't mean that he will be that good in the PL (hopefully he will be), but you already decided that he fits better in our squad and should be put ahead of Lucas. :glare:

by **sgs** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:11 am

akumaface wrote:If given the choice, would you play Lucas ahead of Aquilani or Alonso...The answer is a big NO. Lucas plays there simply because we don't have anybody else and doesn't mean he is good enough. When we play better opponents, he is being exposed at his position as he just couldn't hold on to the ball like Alonso or Hamann can (just to show what we need for that position and you may argue Rafa had put him there and is not Lucas fault). Also, he doesn't have the vision to make any creative pass. All he does is making 10 yards pass backwards and to his closest man left or right. I think he might play better at cover for right back since he doesn't need to be as creative.

Did you mean better opponents than ManU last season at OT?

Funny when folks run out of ideas they begin to pull stuff from their derrieres...

by **Octsky** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 am

well i have seen a bulk of our 08/09 matches and mostly the vision and passing ability of Alonso was unbelievable.

I dont expect Lucas to fill his shoe so soon, what essentially Lucas have to do is 1) intercept or tackle the ball from opposition (2) release a perfect 35-40 yard cross court ball to someone open in the flank (3) or let fly a 25 yard stunner.
Beside Alonso, I can only think of Gerrard who can do it better or at the same level.

That probably means Gerrard will play Alonso's old role, Aquaman will play higher up with Torres. Lucas will play backup for Masch. but we will have a big headache when Masch wants to leave next season.
Alonso can put the ball whatever he wants within 50 yards and Lucas is simply no playmaker YET.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:56 am

not good enough...

I mean Lucas...

and also Babel...

and yes good of Rafa to defend the player...

maybe....

just maybe...

He'll gain his confidence and become better...

by **skatesy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:23 am

LFC2007 wrote:
heimdall wrote:I think Rafa is an appalling man-manager.

I find this sort of statement baffling. Man-management is one area that we - as outsiders - are least qualified to assess, since it's an inherently personal aspect of the job. By that I mean we have a very limited insight into how he relates to his players and the effect his side of the relationship has on the performances of those individuals, and by extention, the team. I don't see sufficient basis for arriving at such a definitive judgment. If there are strong grounds to argue he's an 'appalling man manager' then I'd really like to hear them.

Bang!

by **akumaface** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:27 am

sgs wrote:
akumaface wrote:If given the choice, would you play Lucas ahead of Aquilani or Alonso...The answer is a big NO. Lucas plays there simply because we don't have anybody else and doesn't mean he is good enough. When we play better opponents, he is being exposed at his position as he just couldn't hold on to the ball like Alonso or Hamann can (just to show what we need for that position and you may argue Rafa had put him there and is not Lucas fault). Also, he doesn't have the vision to make any creative pass. All he does is making 10 yards pass backwards and to his closest man left or right. I think he might play better at cover for right back since he doesn't need to be as creative.

Did you mean better opponents than ManU last season at OT?

Funny when folks run out of ideas they begin to pull stuff from their derrieres...

One game doesn't make a season mate. Not going to argue with you and let see what happened at the end of season. Hope you are not the one going to say "i used to believe in Lucas but he really disappointed me and sell him FFS

" in the future.

by **akumaface** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:46 am

TheLad wrote:
akumaface wrote:If given the choice, would you play Lucas ahead of Aquilani or Alonso...The answer is a big NO. Lucas plays there simply because we don't have anybody else and doesn't mean he is good enough. When we play better opponents, he is being exposed at his position as he just couldn't hold on to the ball like Alonso or Hamann can (just to show what we need for that position and you may argue Rafa had put him there and is not Lucas fault). Also, he doesn't have the vision to make any creative pass. All he does is making 10 yards pass backwards and to his closest man left or right. I think he might play better at cover for right back since he doesn't need to be as creative.

You are comparing Lucas to Alonso ffs, they have an age difference of 5 years, Alonso playing for LFC many years. What is more absurd, that Aquilani hasn't put on the red shirt yet, you probably didn't see him much playing, and even if he was good at Roma it doesn't mean that he will be that good in the PL (hopefully he will be), but you already decided that he fits better in our squad and should be put ahead of Lucas.

I'm comparing to what kind of player we used to have. I don't really care about the age differences. IF you really like to compare ages, then compare to the Alonso when he was the same age as Lucas. My point being that we need better player than Lucas to be successful. I don't think compare to Alonso and Aquilani is absurd since Lucas in fact is playing the same position. I don't have an objection if Lucas play somewhere else like RB but the position that he is occupying right now is exactly what Alonso played or Aquilani will play.
Of course I wanted to play Aquilani ahead of Lucas and that's why Rafa bought him in the first place. If Lucas is good enough, then Rafa wouldn't have bought Aquilani. Lucas only perform one good game in a dozen and you think he is the solution already. That's absurd and that is ignoring the truth. Being a Liverpool Fan, our standard should be higher. Tell me one good contribute Lucas has....I can't think of any good ones but can tell you many bad ones like, he can't dribble, can't pass, can't tackle, can't shoot, not good at protecting the ball, physically small to play in CM, not strong enough. Lucas is really that bad and that's why most people are worried that we might be out of the league by the time Aquilani returns. Don't tell me you are completely comfortable having Lucas there. Just check out the thread as to why so many thinks we should pull Gerrard back to CM role.

I didn't watch the stoke game but read the game thread. I'm happy he played well but we were playing stoke for Chris sake... Not that all the bandwagon fans came out to defend him like he is the savior. Read my original post again "If given the choice...." If given the choice, i would only have Lucas as the 5th choice in CM. Just look at the CM in Man U and Chelsea and you will know what i mean. Where will Lucas be if in Man U or Chelsea..

by **bigmick** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:58 am

skatesy wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
heimdall wrote:I think Rafa is an appalling man-manager.

I find this sort of statement baffling. Man-management is one area that we - as outsiders - are least qualified to assess, since it's an inherently personal aspect of the job. By that I mean we have a very limited insight into how he relates to his players and the effect his side of the relationship has on the performances of those individuals, and by extention, the team. I don't see sufficient basis for arriving at such a definitive judgment. If there are strong grounds to argue he's an 'appalling man manager' then I'd really like to hear them.

Bang!

Is that a nail on the head "bang", the sound of someones balloon getting burst, a myth exploding, or just a random slice of onamatepaeia thrown into confuse everyone

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:49 am

bigmick wrote:
skatesy wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
heimdall wrote:I think Rafa is an appalling man-manager.

I find this sort of statement baffling. Man-management is one area that we - as outsiders - are least qualified to assess, since it's an inherently personal aspect of the job. By that I mean we have a very limited insight into how he relates to his players and the effect his side of the relationship has on the performances of those individuals, and by extention, the team. I don't see sufficient basis for arriving at such a definitive judgment. If there are strong grounds to argue he's an 'appalling man manager' then I'd really like to hear them.

Bang!

Is that a nail on the head "bang", the sound of someones balloon getting burst, a myth exploding, or just a random slice of onamatepaeia thrown into confuse everyone

by **roberto green** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:46 am

Lucas could just be the surprise of the season he is obviously going to take heart from the first game at Anfield where the fans were actually cheering him and not booing him

by **only me** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:22 am

Lucas is not going to surprise anyone anywhere i wouldn't have mind tolerating a few awefull games from the lad if i could have seen a glimpse of potential ,but he hasn't shown a bit of future prospect or ability.

At his age you can already spot if a player has that ability which you can rely on in future games ,he showed none ,not in big nor small games.

Spearing ,from a few minutes i saw him ,shows much more potential.

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