Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:30 pm

It seems to be a running theme over on footy365 these days that Barcelona's Champions League victory, Madrid's return to Galactico status and the number of world class players who are opting for Spain rather than England in recent years heralds a shift in power. While the Premiership's ascendancy has been built on big wages and the reputation that comes with 4 strong English teams progressing deep into the Champions League knockout rounds each year for the last few (with at least one English team in the final for the last 5 years), Footy 365 reckons that these factors have masked an underlying fact: the Premiership is not "sexy" enough to attract the truly big names in world football whilst they are at the very top of their game. Seba Veron, they argue, is the last world beater who opted to move to England at the height of his powers. Others have come to England young and became world beaters before moving to greener pastures (Ronaldo, Henry) while still others have come for the cash once past their best (Shevchenko, Deco). Man City's January failure to entice Kaka' across the Channel is advanced as a continuation of a pattern established when the likes of Ronaldinho and Rivaldo turned down opportunities to move to England. If rumours are to be believed, David Villa's another who has ruled out a move to England despite strong interest from and, presumably, big wages offered by several clubs. Samuel Eto'o may do the same. As for Torres, the theory is that he came here before he had reached the very top of his game (I would certainly agree with that) and time will tell how long he stays (this part I find harder to swallow but one never knows). Then, of course, we have the persistent rumours that both Alonso and Mascherano have had their heads turned by Spanish clubs and may depart this summer. If one does or, god forbid, both do, does that not add more fuel to the fire that La Liga's where it's at these days? In any event, it seems worth discussing whether we are truly in the midst of a power shift that will see La Liga claim the Premiership's mantle as best league in world football. Your thoughts?

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by **stmichael** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:40 pm

It's hardly surprising. There's a 50% tax rate in this country. Players aren't stupid.

FWIW I've always said the Premiership is overhyped and overrated. Outside the top 5 (Man City included) there's so much dross it's unreal. There's more quality throughout in La Liga imo, hence why they've had 7 or 8 different teams who've qualified for the CL in the past 5 years or so.

But lets look on the bright side. With Ronaldo gone, we have the two best players in the Premiership now.

by **aCe'** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:43 pm

Why call it a shift though... with the transfers thing, its always been like that and cant see that changing anytime soon...
As i said in a different thread, as children, the south americans usually dream about playing for Madrid or Barcelona when they grow up... following their idols who all played in Spain, or Italy to a less extent...You'll hardly find a kid who wants to play for Utd or Liverpool ... well unless theyr asian or british...
power shift imo would be seeing Madrid, Barcelona and Sevilla for example in the CL semifinals for 3 years on the trot or so...
For now, nothing has changed yet... The top4 in England are still amongst the 6 best in Europe and chances are they'll probably to the latter stages in the CL yet again and atleast one of them will be contesting the final...

by **rush89** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:02 pm

It`s not just a transfer thing. Spain offers more chances to their youngsters. That`s how I see it at least.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:27 pm

the 3-5 slots are stronger in England and I think its very hard to compare the bottom half of both leagues in terms of overall quality.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:15 pm

La Liga's often a two horse race, but even more so now, and that's something the Prem has over it at the present moment. There are at the very least three genuine title contenders in England, and you'd never rule out Arsenal. That's its big selling point at the moment - three or four in a race with others pushing is makes for a more entertaining set of scenarios each week. Added to that it's the most watched on tv league in the world, the richest overall, the most successful in Europe in recent history, and the league with the highest attendances and I so think it's set for a few more years yet as the strongest league. I'm not convinced by the argument that equates more 'big players' joining La Liga with the strongest league tag. At least that's not how I'd evaluate the strength of a league, and besides, plenty of the world's top talent have joined Prem sides ahead of others; Torres, Alonso, Ronaldo, Essien, Reina, Cech, Voronin etc..

by **Sabre** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:37 am

My opinion is the same that last year ago, and the previous one, and in the year 2000. It's cycles that depend on currency, tv contracts, and culture.

It will always be a balance, there will always latin players who will feel more comfortable in Spain than in England, and Germans who will adapt better to the English game than to the Spanish one.

Spanish teams receive a new contract for the next 8 years? They'll offload their money in the first two in a massive buying hysteria. There will always exist cycles, and I think we'll even see a reflourishing Italian football, which IMHO, it's in a cleaning and regeneration progress.

I don't think that the English dominance cycle has ended just yet just because some important names have joined Real Madrid, there's too much money in English football right now. Perhaps we'll see a bit of more balance in the CL final stages, but I think the english league as a whole will keep growing, and the Wigans will be stronger Wigans than 7 years ago.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:07 am

Nah. At least three out of the last four Champions League slots will be English Clubs, the minimum requirement for an English club is still the last eight where the competition proper starts. Had Inniesta not buried one from 25 yards at Stamford Bridge with Barcelona's first shot of the match, two minutes into injury time the question wouldn't even be getting asked.

Real Madrid will be a collection of mercaneries who while being able to comfortably beat Tenerife and sell a few shirts, will get beaten when they play against proper teams. Barcelona will win the Spanish League, and make it to the semi finals of the Champiosn League again where they will run into us, Chelsea and the Mancs, provided we can avoid an English team in the quarters. If we can't, it'll be a coin flip and we may perish at the hands of Chelsea as we have for the last two seasons.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:39 am

No I don't think so. I think the mancs were slightly over-rated last season, and were actually a pretty average team with a few outstanding players who managed to pull them through. Overall I still think we will have at least 2 teams in the CL semi's and probably at least one in the final. I do think the shift in finance will start to play a part if things continue as they are, but in all honesty I think this is a "one off " spree by Madrid and things will continue the way they have for the next few years.

I also think that if Madrid and Barca were in the prem they would be fighting for top 4 rather than the title.

by **woof woof !** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:28 pm

stmichael wrote:It's hardly surprising. There's a 50% tax rate in this country. Players aren't stupid.

I think the tax rate in this country will have a bearing on where the top earners (consequently the top players) decide to go. If for financial reasons fewer top players decide against coming to the premership and our better home grown players move abroad obviously the quality of the premiership would suffer.

I read that even Pennant is on £40,000 a week at Zaragoza with the club prepared to pay his tax, making their expenditure on him close to £50k a week , a similar deal in the uk would cost a club around £80k a week. Seems that despite all the revenue our clubs recieve Spanish clubs may actually be better placed to pay higher wages.

by **Reg** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:48 am

50% tax plus cr@p exchange rate.

by **Highland Red** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:02 pm

Is there such a thing as a balance of power within football?

TV rules football these days. Fact. Without TV money, the Premiership would be a shadow of what it is right now. La Liga has always been, and always will be a very strong league, because the Spanish game is a fantastic product with many strong teams who rely on academies and youth structure.

English football at the highest level has binned this notion. Even having an English manager is no longer important. Win at all costs and throw as much money at it as possible.

Scottish football died on it's :censored:

because of boom and bust economics years ago. Rangers and Celtic destroyed the game north of the border by basically buying every half decent player coming through other teams systems beacuse they had the lions share of TV revenue and are supported ten-fold by 'fans' from all over the country, ala Man Utd.

Every league in Europe has it's main contenders and also rans. That's how football works. The rich get richer and the rest lag behind. Even in the richest league in the world, the likes of Wigan and Hull will never compete for anything worth noting.

Sky may never go away, but there may come a day when for whatever reason, they cannot input as much cash into the product as previous. Then we shall see which way the balance swings again.

by **Sabre** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:06 pm

Well, no 4 english clubs in the semifinals, nor 3, nor 2, in fact no english clubs in the semifinals.

And as for the Spanish clubs, massive failure this season too bar Barcelona.

I'm happy I must say, it's a good thing for football that we don't have two very dominant nations in this competition, it was too boring when we had 2 spanish teams in the final or 3 english teams in the semifinal.

by **Greavesie** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:12 pm

I think the Spanish league is better these days. The talent that Barca produce alone accounts for more talent than all the top English clubs produce altogether. THere's a lot more quality there beyond the top 2 IMO and all the better players are there

At least we have the best player in the league in our team tho

by **RedSi35** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:42 pm

It's a hell of a lot warmer in spain as well

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