Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:02 pm

well it seems 11 people want him sacked if he doesnt win the title next year so guess some people taking thread seriously

by **bigmick** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:08 pm

I don't want him sacked for the rest of his contract. He's done more than enough to deserve that in my opinion, added to the fact that he seems finally to have grasped the realities of the Premiership. That said though, although I disagree with those eleven voters, their views are not as completely off the wall as somewould suggest.

I guess if we do finish third and fourteen points back next season (which as I keep saying is entirely possible) there will be those who will claim this season has been a flash in the pan, a bliiiiiip on our normal performance. There will be others who are of the view that Rafa has taken us as far as he can. They may be right for all any of us know (once again I don't think they are) but the opinion itself is not absolutely ridiculous. I think Rafa has done enough to earn the chance to prove the case one way or another.

For my part, I am confident that now we are well and truly into the sunglasses period we will win the league at some point before the end of his contract.

by **GYBS** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:14 pm

Your view taken a refreshing turn for the good then mick

by **bigmick** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:29 pm

GYBS wrote:Your view taken a refreshing turn for the good then mick

Not really GYBS, although people plot posts and try desperately to point out sea changes in direction there hasn't really been any. When there are any I don't go quiet on subjects, I just admit I was wrong, Kuyt being a prime example.

On the question of rafa I vociferously argued against us negotiating a new contract mid season, and then by definition him being given it. I felt it detracted from our focus at the time, and I still think that now. Given how we went after he'd signed it, you could argue we should have given it to him at the end of the previous season but whatever, we shouldn't have been talking about contracts half way through a season. I also said that it was a grave error to even give him a contract, but I was definately wrong on that score as Rafa has changed his philosophy much more than I ever thought he could or would. It's been quite heartening to see that once he did stop the rotatathon, and once we started going all out for the wins the results dramatically improved. Heartening, but ultimately not that surprising.

Recently, as I've said many times now the team has been performing better than any Liverpool team for the last 20 seasons. Only a fool could deny the rotational reduction and the more attacking approach, and obviously if we continue like that then we can possibly win the league.

As I've said for years now, you don't win the league by making 75 changes to the team in the first 15 matches of the season, nor do you win it by drawing with Stoke and patting yourself on the back for not getting beat. We've got it now though, and we can move forward with confidence.

There will be one or two people (me most certainly amongst them) who will look back on Torres's first season with more than a hint of regret, when he was fit all year and managed to score 30 odd goals. If only we knew then what we know now etc etc, but that's gone. What's more important is we know it now, and as such I think we should stick with the manager we've got.

This even applies if we finish quite a long way back next season of where we are this season. This season HAS been a golden opportunity missed, and next season will be much harder. I'm actually EXPECTING us to find it much harder next time, and as such I won't be saying Rafa is a sh!t manager when we don't beat Man Utd and Chelsea Home and Away. It's inevitable that we won't, and it's inevitable that both Chelsea and Arsenal will be stronger.

For now though, I can't think of a single manager in World football who would have a greater chance of winning the title with Liverpool over the next few years (well OK, maybe only one) so I'm happy wiht the fella we've got. I fully expect to be sticking up for him next season when we find it harder, and many of those who are denying the "golden chance" theory this time time around are all over him when we lose a couple.

by **GYBS** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:37 pm

people will always be fickle mick - players will get booed one minute then cheered the next - players will get slagged off during match thread they go then they are proclaimed gods - same with the manager . Its the age of the internet fan where all fustrations can be open mentioned and players and managers are no longer given much time too to succeed or even build a successful team - i have always supported rafa and happy in that fact just like i will always support liverpool players when they pull on that shirt and while they are at the club . I hate when our players get labelled sh.ite every day same with manager without coming up with sufficent evidence to support it and without looking at the facts and the whole picture . Stopped going into the match day threads as some of the stuff said in there is not what i expect to see from liverpool fans and you still see it on here . Surely shouldnt we as fans support our players and manager or am i too old school in my thoughts of backing the team ?

by **bigmick** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 pm

Support, backing the team and all that stuff though are different to voicing an opinion on an internet forum. As much as I'm saying that I think barring a ridiculous loss of form (we finish seventh in the league, don't get out of the group stages in the Champions League, re-sign Bolo Zenden, that sort of thing) we should keep the manager, I've no doubt he'll make mistakes and when he does I'll be more than prepared to debate them. That's not because I don't "support" the manager, it's just an opinion. If we see Keanegate mark 2, then you can be sure I'll be all over it again.

I don't think we will though. We'll get mistakes simply because everyone makes them, even though Rafa's biggest fans would have you believe sometimes that he never makes one. As long though as we don't revert back to the darkest days of styling, the willy nilly changes, the delayed gazelle and all of that totally discredited nonsense, then I'll be with the manager all the way. If we can keep up the win at all costs mentality, then I'm all for it.

by **GYBS** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:56 pm

Oh i admit he makes mistakes - signing keane being one of them and a few selection mistakes but as you say every makes them and its learning from there is whats important - Evans didnt ,GH certainly didnt in the end but hopefully Rafa does .

BTW my post wasnt aimed at you - i know you have strong opinions on some but dont go down the lines of his is "sh.ite" etc and support the club

by **Madmax** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:26 am

Interesting read from Oliver Kay, Football Correspondent...

by **Judge** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:05 am

simolonge wrote:Is this thread a wind up ?

This is a new low for this place if its not a wind up.

no mate, the thread aint a wind up, but some of the responses are !!

by **vegnomeat** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:21 pm

My first post, here goes.

I wouldn't want RAFA sacked if we don't win next year. I would ask for reason, this has been a challenging season (although empty ultimately) and can only serve to help the club forward. I remember the 05/06 season when we finished with 82 points, we then took a few steps backwards before finally progressing this year.

I would say though that in my honest opinion we won't take 12 points off Chelski and the mancs next year and we may have a tougher season. All the while though we will be gaining experience which will stand us in good stead.

regards

by **DrPepe** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:29 pm

vegnomeat wrote:My first post, here goes.

I wouldn't want RAFA sacked if we don't win next year. I would ask for reason, this has been a challenging season (although empty ultimately) and can only serve to help the club forward. I remember the 05/06 season when we finished with 82 points, we then took a few steps backwards before finally progressing this year.

I would say though that in my honest opinion we won't take 12 points off Chelski and the mancs next year and we may have a tougher season. All the while though we will be gaining experience which will stand us in good stead.

regards

yes, i agree with all of that

in my opinion, without a big fat cash injection it's almost impossible to jump ahead of the "silly money" crew in a single season or 2, so unfortunately we have to do it the slow way and develop our squad

ps. I'll have a vegi-sausage sandwich with ketchup please

by **Octsky** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:58 pm

Torres

Barry Gerrard Silva

Alonso Mash

Isuna Agger Skertel Carra
Reina

now tell me this team cannot win the title.
now tell me this team cannot trash the mancs.
ps: no RB, dont like arbeloa.

by **bigmick** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:09 pm

Octsky wrote:Torres

Barry Gerrard Silva

Alonso Mash

Isuna Agger Skertel Carra
Reina

now tell me this team cannot win the title.

That team cannot win the title.

by **aCe'** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:25 pm

bigmick wrote:
Octsky wrote:Torres

Barry Gerrard Silva

Alonso Mash

Isuna Agger Skertel Carra
Reina

now tell me this team cannot win the title.

That team cannot win the title.

to be honest id even go as far as saying that the starting 11 he has up there wouldnt be a step-up on what we have here now...
Id take Riera or even Kuyt ahead of Barry as a winger and the 2fullbacks arent good enough... the central defensive pairing is a disaster.. Lets not try to change it around too much here... sure thats your opinion and fair enough but i think we should just add a couple of players in important positions and keep everything else as it is..

Torres

Riera/Kuyt Gerrard XXXX

Alonso Mash

Aurelio Agger Carra XXXX

Reina

If we have more to spend then we might want to look into adding a backup forward and maybe a new CB instead of Agger.... Besides that i wouldnt want to change much.. even Arbeloa could do a job i wasnt sure i wanted to take him out of the side but given our record against the smaller sides and the fact that ever since Pennant left ( :shifty

) we havent had any players carrying the ball down the right flank and putting in a decent cross, i just thought it would probably be a good option for us to have a bit more attacking quality down the right flank because quite frankly after the season hes had, i dont see Kuyt going anywhere despite all his limitations...

by **Judge** » Wed May 20, 2009 8:07 am

bigmick wrote:
Octsky wrote:Torres

Barry Gerrard Silva

Alonso Mash

Isuna Agger Skertel Carra
Reina

now tell me this team cannot win the title.

That team cannot win the title.

micks one liner response - need air i do

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