Liverpool FC Forum

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:03 pm

once again blaming the managers lack of success on the pitch with issues off the pitch. if the off field saga was in any way detrimental to the on pitch saga then we would also be failing in the CL.

No matter how much someone tries to deflect the blame or look for excuses, the fact remains that benitez has failed us on the footballing side

response to the oliver kaye article

by **Judge** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:09 pm

if we fail as a football team it is the managers sole responsibilty - football is a results industry, and if we dont perform consistantly, then the managers to blame.

Rafa has continuously said we have quality in our Squad - however, we do not win most of the games when we dont have a full strength team out. Therefore we lack depth. The quality isnt there throughout. i understand Rafa must support his team and selections, but its ultimately his fault if we fail

Managers know this when they take a football job on that they must try to succeed. At Liverpool, just like chelsea, arsenal and man u, success is top priority. Rafa's spent alot of dosh, and we still are falling short of the mark in the league (well at present we are)

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:16 pm

kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:Coming back to Kazza'a point, if we got rid of rafa at the end of the season and brought in a Mourinho (I say "a" Mourinho because I don't believe we'd get "the" Mourinho) you might find the whole thing tips on its head. The die hard Rafa supporters will no doubt be very unconvinced that the new bloke is an improvement almost regardless of what he does, whereas the most strident anti's would in all probability give him much more of a chance than they would Rafa.

We could finish third and have me, Peewee and S@int saying it was a good effort, while most of the rest of the forum said we could have done better.

It won't happen of course because Rafa is in for the long haul. Those who have pointed out that it took seven years for Fergie to win the title, are going to find out whether Rafa can match him.

I supported Houllier until he was gone even though that final year was a test of my patience. I have nowhere near the dissatisfaction with Raffa I had with Houllier.

Mick because you are convinced that Raffa will not win us the title does not make it so. I think Utd are a great team and it will take a super effort to dethrone them. For me Raffa is our best chance. If and when he re-signs, he should get the benefit of the doubt in regards to the Parry thing. Staying on his case will not help the team to win but support might.

For some (and I am not saying Mick), criticism comes easier than praise.

I too supported Houllier to the end Kazza. It didn't mean I agreed with giving him a new contract after we won the League cup though mate. I didn't support him that much! I would have preferred to wait and see. Unfortunately we didn't, and paid for it by having to sell Heskey to pay Houllier off.

I don't believe there would be half the negativity on the boards if Rafa hadn't started talking about his contract half way through the season. He has over a year left on his present contract, plenty enough time to "prove" he is worth another contract. FFS IF HE WON THE LEAGUE he could name his own price.

I just don't think he has done enough in the league in 5 years to warrent a new contract , many think he has which is fair enough.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:22 pm

I lost faith with houliier after the way fowler was treated, i felt he had his own interests at heart rather than the interests of the club

edit to explain what i mean, i mean the way he was dropped after his training ground spat with thompson amongst other things, fowlers book pretty much sums houllier up

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:46 pm

We are no better off under Benitez....he needs to go along with parry we have gone backwards since 2005.."Adios Amigo" i say. :nod

by **Judge** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:07 pm

s@int wrote:
kazza wrote:
bigmick wrote:Coming back to Kazza'a point, if we got rid of rafa at the end of the season and brought in a Mourinho (I say "a" Mourinho because I don't believe we'd get "the" Mourinho) you might find the whole thing tips on its head. The die hard Rafa supporters will no doubt be very unconvinced that the new bloke is an improvement almost regardless of what he does, whereas the most strident anti's would in all probability give him much more of a chance than they would Rafa.

We could finish third and have me, Peewee and S@int saying it was a good effort, while most of the rest of the forum said we could have done better.

It won't happen of course because Rafa is in for the long haul. Those who have pointed out that it took seven years for Fergie to win the title, are going to find out whether Rafa can match him.

I supported Houllier until he was gone even though that final year was a test of my patience. I have nowhere near the dissatisfaction with Raffa I had with Houllier.

Mick because you are convinced that Raffa will not win us the title does not make it so. I think Utd are a great team and it will take a super effort to dethrone them. For me Raffa is our best chance. If and when he re-signs, he should get the benefit of the doubt in regards to the Parry thing. Staying on his case will not help the team to win but support might.

For some (and I am not saying Mick), criticism comes easier than praise.

I too supported Houllier to the end Kazza. It didn't mean I agreed with giving him a new contract after we won the League cup though mate. I didn't support him that much! I would have preferred to wait and see. Unfortunately we didn't, and paid for it by having to sell Heskey to pay Houllier off.

I don't believe there would be half the negativity on the boards if Rafa hadn't started talking about his contract half way through the season. He has over a year left on his present contract, plenty enough time to "prove" he is worth another contract. FFS IF HE WON THE LEAGUE he could name his own price.

I just don't think he has done enough in the league in 5 years to warrent a new contract , many think he has which is fair enough.

i stand by what i said in the post above this one im quoting.

at the start of the season im always an optimist, however, i am not blind either.

we do not have the squad of players good enough to mount a sustained challange to the league title.

rafa is 5 years in charge and we are no nearer winning it. regardless of the wonderful night in istanbul, we have not improved much further at all.

the book stops with the manager im afraid.

its far different winning the spanish league than the english one here.
Yes we have great players like torres, alonso, carragher and gerrard, but we need another 15 of these type of players if we are to win Englands top prize again.

Ronaldo was available prior to signing for manure. we couldve had him. the lad is a self confessed liverpool fan (source portugese media).
Why cant we go for more creative players, and not buying numpties who are then forced to play out of position!!. I'd rather have a guy who can create numerous chances, score goals by themselves, than have a workhorse who can run up and down a bit (ie: kuyt). Plus, that also extends to Babel, who tbh, is a complete waste of money - poor ball control, usually unable to get past defenders, a real heskey type player - rubbish (at lfc anyway).
I thought following the champion league win against Milan, that we would be having agents knocking our door down with offers of quality players etc. It did not happen - WHY??
The marketing of the club has been poor most probably!!

however, we aint gonna win the league. that would be a miracle now. But the manager must take the blame. So with a heavy heart i say that Rafa has had his time - he failed, so bring in Mourinho

by **aCe'** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:15 pm

the Dundalk thread with the Rafa GO, STAY, UNDECIDED people... cast your votes there ...very interesting to see how different members view the whole Rafa situation and from reading some of the posts on different threads and then going back to the Dundalk thread it seems the numbers somehow don't add up...

by **GRAHAM01** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:26 pm

aCe' wrote:the Dundalk thread with the Rafa GO, STAY, UNDECIDED people... cast your votes there ...very interesting to see how different members view the whole Rafa situation and from reading some of the posts on different threads and then going back to the Dundalk thread it seems the numbers somehow don't add up...

not so much as they don't add up i just think maybe one or two have changed there mind after the weekend

by **aCe'** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:33 pm

GRAHAM01 wrote:
aCe' wrote:the Dundalk thread with the Rafa GO, STAY, UNDECIDED people... cast your votes there ...very interesting to see how different members view the whole Rafa situation and from reading some of the posts on different threads and then going back to the Dundalk thread it seems the numbers somehow don't add up...

not so much as they don't add up i just think maybe one or two have changed there mind after the weekend

i think most of the people who want Rafa out aren't yet ready to come out and put it out in the open...most would rather wait till the end of the season and then decide on where they stand...

would be interesting to see where different members stand at the moment though..thats why i wanted people to actually go on that thread and vote rather than just say it in yet another post that will probably be forgotten in a different thread...

off to the dundalk thread judge :cool:

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:41 pm

aCe' wrote:i think most of the people who want Rafa out aren't yet ready to come out and put it out in the open...most would rather wait till the end of the season and then decide on where they stand...

It may be truth, because sometimes it seems the same thing to me, and I don't understand why is that.

I don't understand why anyone should be afraid of coming out and saying he has lost faith in the manager partially or completely. I for instance, I trust Rafa pretty much, but a bit less than two years ago. So what, I think he's the right manager for the club. That's not being disrespectful with the boss like calling him a clown, that's simply stating how you feel and nobody should have problems with that.

by **Judge** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:45 pm

aCe' wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:
aCe' wrote:the Dundalk thread with the Rafa GO, STAY, UNDECIDED people... cast your votes there ...very interesting to see how different members view the whole Rafa situation and from reading some of the posts on different threads and then going back to the Dundalk thread it seems the numbers somehow don't add up...

not so much as they don't add up i just think maybe one or two have changed there mind after the weekend

i think most of the people who want Rafa out aren't yet ready to come out and put it out in the open...most would rather wait till the end of the season and then decide on where they stand...

would be interesting to see where different members stand at the moment though..thats why i wanted people to actually go on that thread and vote rather than just say it in yet another post that will probably be forgotten in a different thread...

off to the dundalk thread judge

?..

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:46 pm

REDTILLDEAD wrote:We are no better off under Benitez....he needs to go along with parry we have gone backwards since 2005.."Adios Amigo" i say.

what? hello? gone backwards since 2005? you stupid bstd.

i cant even be bothered proving you wrong you waste of space. :veryangry

by **aCe'** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:08 pm

Lee J wrote:
REDTILLDEAD wrote:We are no better off under Benitez....he needs to go along with parry we have gone backwards since 2005.."Adios Amigo" i say.

what? hello? gone backwards since 2005? you stupid bstd.

i cant even be bothered proving you wrong you waste of space.

chill mate...

to some, going from a champions league winning side to a side winning nothing and fighting for a champs league spot more often than not isnt exactly progress so calling him a bastrd and a waste of space without explaining yourself isnt probably the best way to go about things...

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:12 pm

aCe' wrote:
Lee J wrote:
REDTILLDEAD wrote:We are no better off under Benitez....he needs to go along with parry we have gone backwards since 2005.."Adios Amigo" i say.

what? hello? gone backwards since 2005? you stupid bstd.

i cant even be bothered proving you wrong you waste of space.

chill mate...

to some, going from a champions league winning side to a side winning nothing and fighting for a champs league spot more often than not isnt exactly progress so calling him a bastrd and a waste of space without explaining yourself isnt probably the best way to go about things...

2005 we won the champions league and didn't finish the domestic league anywhere close to the top.

2009 we could still win the champions league and mathmatically we're still in shout of the top spot. If not, we're closer than ever. We also have Torres playing for us which is more than we had back then.

so, sorry for not explaining but I think that pretty much concludes that we have made progress since 2005.

by **aCe'** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:15 pm

Judge wrote:
aCe' wrote:
GRAHAM01 wrote:
aCe' wrote:the Dundalk thread with the Rafa GO, STAY, UNDECIDED people... cast your votes there ...very interesting to see how different members view the whole Rafa situation and from reading some of the posts on different threads and then going back to the Dundalk thread it seems the numbers somehow don't add up...

not so much as they don't add up i just think maybe one or two have changed there mind after the weekend

i think most of the people who want Rafa out aren't yet ready to come out and put it out in the open...most would rather wait till the end of the season and then decide on where they stand...

would be interesting to see where different members stand at the moment though..thats why i wanted people to actually go on that thread and vote rather than just say it in yet another post that will probably be forgotten in a different thread...

off to the dundalk thread judge

?..

your name wasnt/isnt up on either list and you seem to have made your preferences pretty clear in more than one thread so i thought you'd go ahead and add your input in that thread..
no worries if you're not interested though, just thought it would be a good idea if we had as many members involved to get a better picture thats all...

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