Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

But you seem to have a semi for Maureen all the time, an I just can't stand the bloke.

I can't count him among my personal friends either. I also think Ferguson is an out and out c... but I think he's a fantastic manager of a football club. Whether or not Mourinho is a nice bloke is surely the most irrelevent thing anybody can come up with when discussing him.

FWIW as time has gone on I don't like Rafa either. I think he is unbelieveably arrogant, I think he often behaves in a cringmakingly childish way, and I think he is incredibly selfish in the way he puts whats best for him ahead of what's best for the team. Add in to that that he doesn't win trophies and we play mind blowingly negative football, and it's a constant mystery to me why people are so apssionately loyal to him.

When the Kuyt contract thing broke, I thought pretty much everyone would see that for what it was, but no. Somebody posted up our "progression" in comparison to Aston Villa since Martin O 'Neill has been there. You want a definition of "progression", check them out. We were 11 points back last season, we are currently 7 back, having played a game more, and we still have to go to Old Trafford.

Give me a manager who gets result. Know any? I do, he don't give me a "semi" but his record speaks for itself. I also think if he were our manager, we may learn to think it was funny as feck as he was continually getting one over on Ferguson. Just like his exchanges with Fergie beofre the Champions League game for Inter were hilarious, as was his bust up with the linesman which almost led to an Inter goal. We'd soon forget the shhhhhh if he won us the title, I would anyway.

[dawson99]

You don't think we will win the Champs league?
when last time we won it with Baros up front on his own, Traore in defence and Smicer for most of the game.

You can never say never due to whos is in the squad if the desire is there.

[bigmick]

Course you can't say never Daws, and you'd knoe the odds better than me but I'd give us a 10% chance at this stage. We'll see off Madrid alright, and then we've got to win 3 ties. If it's the case that like before we go into a general draw then, should we draw Panethenikos in the quarters (I don't even know if they're in it but you get my drift) then obviously our chances go up. If we draw the Mancs, our chances dimish, cue the "but we'll beat them c...s" and we might, but our chances would be lessened obviously.

I just think the future of the club is too impoortant to stake it what in some ways becomes a bit of a lottery. I must find those Villa strats, unbelieveable reading they were.

[dawson99]

Still, mabye I'm more heart than stat, but I could never want Mourinho here, it's the asme for some of us but others would love hmi here

(ps - inter 2-0 down, our very own JAR with one of the goals)

[bigmick]

Here you go Daws, next time people talk to me about "progression" I should show em this. This is what I call progression.

Progress: Liverpool v Aston Villa (since MON arrived)

2005/2006          P      W      D      L      PT
3 Liverpool 38 25 7 6 82
16 Aston Villa 38 10 12 16 42

2006/2007
3 Liverpool 38 20 8 10 68
11 Aston Villa 38 11 17 10 50

2007/2008
4 Liverpool 38 21 13 4      76
6 Aston Villa 38 16 12 10 60

2008/2009 (to date)
3 Liverpool 27 15 10 2 55
4 Aston Villa 26 15 6 5 51

Another definition of "progression" was Mourinho's first season at Chelsea, his first in English football. He took over an excellent team which had been built by Claudio Ranieri. Thye already had Lampard, Terry, Cech etc. He signed some big money players. Need time to settle in right? the manager needs time to get used to the league, players have to gel and all that stuff? Wrong. Ranieri's Chelsea the previous season amassed 79 points and finished 2nd. Mourinho's Chelsea the next season amassed 95 points and won the title with a record total. No five year plan there. "But he bought the title" and that may or may not be true. He did though gel those players instantly, and he did add 17 points, SEVENTEEN POINTS onto Ranieri's best effort at the first time of asking. That's progression for you.

[dawson99]

ok Mick, but what state has Maureen left Chelsea in? an old aged squad who cant be sold on, a massive wage bill and the owner is bored of spending... is that short term progression what we really want?

I dunno, the leagues getting tougher and tougher, only the mancs seem immune to it at the moment and the rest of us are going nuts it seems

[bigmick]

Still, mabye I'm more heart than stat, but I could never want Mourinho here, it's the asme for some of us but others would love hmi here

(ps - inter 2-0 down, our very own JAR with one of the goals)

That probably means he won't get the record points toital in his first season then. They'll still win the title, but Mourinho won't hold the record points totals in three countries at the same time. Feck him then he's sh!t 

[bigmick]

ok Mick, but what state has Maureen left Chelsea in? an old aged squad who cant be sold on, a massive wage bill and the owner is bored of spending... is that short term progression what we really want?

I dunno, the leagues getting tougher and tougher, only the mancs seem immune to it at the moment and the rest of us are going nuts it seems

Well they did tie for the league practically last season, and come within the width of the post of winning the Champions League, so they may be aging but they ain't that bad.

Come to think of it, what's Avram Grant up to these days?

[LegBarnes]

Rafa might as well go if we go out of CL asap get new guy in give him time till end of season to learn what he wants to keep and what he wants to go.

[Rockthekop]

We carry on plodding along in the league picking up whatever results we can. The goal posts however have moved IMO. For me its got nothing to do with finishing in a comfortable position and qualifying for Europe next year. Its about success and silverware and while the sun is rapidly setting on our title aspirations, we have to focus on the European cup.

By doing this it may keep Rafa in the job that little bit longer and for some odd reason I'm anxious to see if he can finally prove his doubters (myself included) wrong next year. The lads have done reasonably well in a below par league thus far and for that Rafa In my humble opinion deserves one last chance. Especially now that Parry is out of the way, my gut feeling about Parry is that he has always been a burden on the club with his lacklusture ways. With him out of the way I'm sure Rafa's job maybe easier. Just a quick disclaimer here, I dont think Parry was the instigator in the signing of Keane or players like Lucas and Babel. Blame firmly lies at the feet of Rafa as far as I'm concerned, but I dont thinks its one way traffic all the time.

I'd like a crystal ball just to see into the summer months after the transfer window, I could probably tell you from his future signings whether Rafae should be sacked even before a ball is kicked in anger next season. Alas I've personally come round to the idea of giving him a 2 year contract ..... Sorry back on topic.

Focus on Europe now as thats our best opportunity for silverware, even though we're out of the league still like to see us trounce Man. U. Skertel break Ronaldos legs, and Gerrard to smack f.uck out of G.Neville.

I'd be happy with that. Yes I'm deflated after seeing us fall short in the league, but at least we've been up there for some part of the campaign. It hasnt been totally disastrous, we're unbeaten at home albeit with some smelly draws. And have only lost twice this season, I suppose deep down in my heart of hearts I thought we'd never win the league so I'm not to deflated. Hey, its the modern day joys of being a fan of Liverpool FC. 

The reason why I disagree with the "give him two more years" bit is that he's had five years already, and in those five years we aren't anywhere near to be fair. Yes we challenged while everybody else was imploding, but the minute man Utd got their act together Rafa fell to pieces. It's not even as if we went head to head with them, they've gone past us like we're stood still.

Even Chelsea, who've been beaten Home and Away by us, been beaten at Home by Arsenal, and been beaten at Man Utd have changes their manager and whoosh!, they've gone past us as well. They've done it because they can beat the poorer teams much more efficiently than we can. We can avoid defeat against the best of em, but we can't win matches with enough consistency. This IMHO will never alter with Rafa in charge.

That's why I advocate a change in manager at the end of the season, I firmly believe he will never win it and every year he is now at the helm is a wasted opportunity. Fair enough post Bam, but we disagree here. I also FWIW feel absolutely certain that you will get your wish, and that he will sign a new contract.

3 points.

1: Fergie was in his 7th year when it clicked
2: who would you replace him with
3: see what its like without Parry, if Rafa has got more power

These days no manager at a top four club would get 7 years to win the PL, times have changed my friend.  Rafa hasn't even come close.

Mourinho

Parry is a convenient scapegoat for Rafa's co*k-ups in the transfer market.  Parry may have been responsible for a few but the majority of signings were Rafa's and only Rafa's.

[DAV]

Firstly I want rid of the americans as much as anyone.  I’m not defending them.
RB seems to be made out as the greatest tactician of all time. I must say I really have my doughts. Since day one, he dosen’t stick with a settled team, buys players and constantly plays them out of position. We got away with it away at portsmouth, with players such as arbeloa playing in midfield, a forward we bort Kuyt, not cutting the grade as up front, so now playing on the right, Not sure what it is with Liverpool Managers of late I remember the same thing happening with diouf and cisse. He also sticks with players he believes have talent even though a blind man can see they don’t cut it. Lucas and Sissoko are prime examples of this. I no Sissoko is gone but if players like Keane had been given half the chance that these 2 clowns got I wonder where we would be now. On the subject of Keane, if either Parry the americans or someone else did buy him then why would after such a short time they agree to sell him at a massive loss when to be fair he wasn’t given a chance. Still baffles me as to when he did get his confidence and start scoring he was then axed, I think that was after bolton away. (I can’t wait to read his biography in years to come). I think we should be more concerned with who sold Keane not who bort him. With Torres injured there is no one else to fill his boots. So great Manager, great tactics, NO. When we win and play well all praise is heaped on the manager and rightly so, when we lose, it seems all the pro RB supporters blame it on the americans, parry and that RB hasn’t been able to buy the players he wants. If we could have 2 managers one for eurpoe being RB and someone else for league games we would be sorted. I still say RB is does not respect other premireship teams. He thinks what ever rubbish he puts out can beat week opponents.
If we win the champions league I still say he must go.

[LegBarnes]

We carry on plodding along in the league picking up whatever results we can. The goal posts however have moved IMO. For me its got nothing to do with finishing in a comfortable position and qualifying for Europe next year. Its about success and silverware and while the sun is rapidly setting on our title aspirations, we have to focus on the European cup.

By doing this it may keep Rafa in the job that little bit longer and for some odd reason I'm anxious to see if he can finally prove his doubters (myself included) wrong next year. The lads have done reasonably well in a below par league thus far and for that Rafa In my humble opinion deserves one last chance. Especially now that Parry is out of the way, my gut feeling about Parry is that he has always been a burden on the club with his lacklusture ways. With him out of the way I'm sure Rafa's job maybe easier. Just a quick disclaimer here, I dont think Parry was the instigator in the signing of Keane or players like Lucas and Babel. Blame firmly lies at the feet of Rafa as far as I'm concerned, but I dont thinks its one way traffic all the time.

I'd like a crystal ball just to see into the summer months after the transfer window, I could probably tell you from his future signings whether Rafae should be sacked even before a ball is kicked in anger next season. Alas I've personally come round to the idea of giving him a 2 year contract ..... Sorry back on topic.

Focus on Europe now as thats our best opportunity for silverware, even though we're out of the league still like to see us trounce Man. U. Skertel break Ronaldos legs, and Gerrard to smack f.uck out of G.Neville.

I'd be happy with that. Yes I'm deflated after seeing us fall short in the league, but at least we've been up there for some part of the campaign. It hasnt been totally disastrous, we're unbeaten at home albeit with some smelly draws. And have only lost twice this season, I suppose deep down in my heart of hearts I thought we'd never win the league so I'm not to deflated. Hey, its the modern day joys of being a fan of Liverpool FC. 

The reason why I disagree with the "give him two more years" bit is that he's had five years already, and in those five years we aren't anywhere near to be fair. Yes we challenged while everybody else was imploding, but the minute man Utd got their act together Rafa fell to pieces. It's not even as if we went head to head with them, they've gone past us like we're stood still.

Even Chelsea, who've been beaten Home and Away by us, been beaten at Home by Arsenal, and been beaten at Man Utd have changes their manager and whoosh!, they've gone past us as well. They've done it because they can beat the poorer teams much more efficiently than we can. We can avoid defeat against the best of em, but we can't win matches with enough consistency. This IMHO will never alter with Rafa in charge.

That's why I advocate a change in manager at the end of the season, I firmly believe he will never win it and every year he is now at the helm is a wasted opportunity. Fair enough post Bam, but we disagree here. I also FWIW feel absolutely certain that you will get your wish, and that he will sign a new contract.

3 points.

1: Fergie was in his 7th year when it clicked
2: who would you replace him with
3: see what its like without Parry, if Rafa has got more power

These days no manager at a top four club would get 7 years to win the PL, times have changed my friend.  Rafa hasn't even come close.

Mourinho

Parry is a convenient scapegoat for Rafa's co*k-ups in the transfer market.  Parry may have been responsible for a few but the majority of signings were Rafa's and only Rafa's.

I agree 100% with that parry is a clown but rafa is no mug alot of the transfers was down to him so he has to take most of blame.

My biggest problem with parry was how much he let liverpool slip in market to the manc's.

How long have other top 4 clubs had video bilboards ?

How much sponsership we lost just on that alone not to mention all other area's IE far east usa ...

[dawson99]

ok Mick, but what state has Maureen left Chelsea in? an old aged squad who cant be sold on, a massive wage bill and the owner is bored of spending... is that short term progression what we really want?

I dunno, the leagues getting tougher and tougher, only the mancs seem immune to it at the moment and the rest of us are going nuts it seems

Well they did tie for the league practically last season, and come within the width of the post of winning the Champions League, so they may be aging but they ain't that bad.

Come to think of it, what's Avram Grant up to these days?

I almost think u r serious and would rather have Avram than Rafa sometimes Mick!

but with Chelsea, wheres the players coming from next year, or the year after? Average age must be 30 for them, trust me Maureen didnt leave them in the best of the states

[Ciggy]

Come to think of it, what's Avram Grant up to these days?

K'inell mick his face would turn milk sour

[puroresu]

Still, mabye I'm more heart than stat, but I could never want Mourinho here, it's the asme for some of us but others would love hmi here

(ps - inter 2-0 down, our very own JAR with one of the goals)

3-3 seems like another fantastic game on the continent this evening.