Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:18 am

It's a nice article Igor, and an interesting point of view. Now given the title of the thread, imagine if the roles had been reversed and the thread was called "Why I think Rafa is fecking great" and I had posted up a similar article which held the opposite opinion to this one. People would have gone absolutely off their heads with rage, fecking unbelieveable what this place is coming to etc etc.

I'm very much of the view that everyone, and that means each and every one is entitled to not only have a view, but is entitled to express it as well (provided of course it's not some wind-up idiot who actually supports everton or the Mancs or something). That's what has got me this morning. It's not that people disagree with your view because of course you expect that. It's not that people argue the point because of course that's what it's all about. It's when people dispute your right to hold an opinion, it's when they don't attack the opinion but the fact that you chose to voice it in the first place. "Too much negative sh!t on this place", rather than "I'm going to explain why I disagree".

I start a thread about the squad after five years of the Rafalution and try and evaluate how good it is. People don't come on and say "now hang on, we haven't only got one striker. We've got four because I really do think N'Gog, Kuyt and Babel are top class strikers". They don't say "I think you are being very harsh on Arbeloa, I think he's a top class right back". They don't come back at Owzat and say "hang on, those stats don't indicate what you say they do/those stats are factually incorrect". No, they dispute the posters right to voice an opinion. Because it's too negative for their taste.

I've undertook to but out of the forum, and I'll stick to my pledge. It's a shame though that a whole portion of people, despite being in the overwhelming majority from what I can see simply cannot bring themselves to even tolerate a dissenting voice.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:33 am

bigmick wrote:It's a nice article Igor, and an interesting point of view. Now given the title of the thread, imagine if the roles had been reversed and the thread was called "Why I think Rafa is fecking great" and I had posted up a similar article which held the opposite opinion to this one. People would have gone absolutely off their heads with rage, fecking unbelieveable what this place is coming to etc etc.

I'm very much of the view that everyone, and that means each and every one is entitled to not only have a view, but is entitled to express it as well (provided of course it's not some wind-up idiot who actually supports everton or the Mancs or something). That's what has got me this morning. It's not that people disagree with your view because of course you expect that. It's not that people argue the point because of course that's what it's all about. It's when people dispute your right to hold an opinion, it's when they don't attack the opinion but the fact that you chose to voice it in the first place. "Too much negative sh!t on this place", rather than "I'm going to explain why I disagree".

I start a thread about the squad after five years of the Rafalution and try and evaluate how good it is. People don't come on and say "now hang on, we haven't only got one striker. We've got four because I really do think N'Gog, Kuyt and Babel are top class strikers". They don't say "I think you are being very harsh on Arbeloa, I think he's a top class right back". They don't come back at Owzat and say "hang on, those stats don't indicate what you say they do/those stats are factually incorrect". No, they dispute the posters right to voice an opinion. Because it's too negative for their taste.

I've undertook to but out of the forum, and I'll stick to my pledge. It's a shame though that a whole portion of people, despite being in the overwhelming majority from what I can see simply cannot bring themselves to even tolerate a dissenting voice.

Your problem mick and i mean this in the nicest possible way is , your too nice . You need to tell people to stop talkin :censored:

and prove your opinion wrong or shut the feck up . Some people don't want to debate ,some just want to argue , on both sides of the debate mate . Just tell them to friggen do one .

Sometimes you've got to let fly , it's great .

Anyway , you are completely wrong about rafa , cos i said so :;):

by **Number 9** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:34 am

bigmick wrote:It's a nice article Igor, and an interesting point of view. Now given the title of the thread, imagine if the roles had been reversed and the thread was called "Why I think Rafa is fecking great" and I had posted up a similar article which held the opposite opinion to this one. People would have gone absolutely off their heads with rage, fecking unbelieveable what this place is coming to etc etc.

I'm very much of the view that everyone, and that means each and every one is entitled to not only have a view, but is entitled to express it as well (provided of course it's not some wind-up idiot who actually supports everton or the Mancs or something). That's what has got me this morning. It's not that people disagree with your view because of course you expect that. It's not that people argue the point because of course that's what it's all about. It's when people dispute your right to hold an opinion, it's when they don't attack the opinion but the fact that you chose to voice it in the first place. "Too much negative sh!t on this place", rather than "I'm going to explain why I disagree".

I start a thread about the squad after five years of the Rafalution and try and evaluate how good it is. People don't come on and say "now hang on, we haven't only got one striker. We've got four because I really do think N'Gog, Kuyt and Babel are top class strikers". They don't say "I think you are being very harsh on Arbeloa, I think he's a top class right back". They don't come back at Owzat and say "hang on, those stats don't indicate what you say they do/those stats are factually incorrect". No, they dispute the posters right to voice an opinion. Because it's too negative for their taste.

I've undertook to but out of the forum, and I'll stick to my pledge. It's a shame though that a whole portion of people, despite being in the overwhelming majority from what I can see simply cannot bring themselves to even tolerate a dissenting voice.

Dissenting voice??Put it this way Mick...your yappy dissenting voice has been all I have heard on this forum for a long time!Its..IF Rafa does this IF Rafa does that IF Rafa blah blah blah?
Well ..I'll tell you what,despite all you hear (on the other side of the world) people are not actually so defeatist here.They may be on this board but its not an implication on how LFC fans feel.This place guts me of late and you are the conductor.
Its a bout time ya hit home cause that NZ sex toy cr@p does not suit you!Or maybe it does?

by **bigmick** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:46 am

Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's a nice article Igor, and an interesting point of view. Now given the title of the thread, imagine if the roles had been reversed and the thread was called "Why I think Rafa is fecking great" and I had posted up a similar article which held the opposite opinion to this one. People would have gone absolutely off their heads with rage, fecking unbelieveable what this place is coming to etc etc.

I'm very much of the view that everyone, and that means each and every one is entitled to not only have a view, but is entitled to express it as well (provided of course it's not some wind-up idiot who actually supports everton or the Mancs or something). That's what has got me this morning. It's not that people disagree with your view because of course you expect that. It's not that people argue the point because of course that's what it's all about. It's when people dispute your right to hold an opinion, it's when they don't attack the opinion but the fact that you chose to voice it in the first place. "Too much negative sh!t on this place", rather than "I'm going to explain why I disagree".

I start a thread about the squad after five years of the Rafalution and try and evaluate how good it is. People don't come on and say "now hang on, we haven't only got one striker. We've got four because I really do think N'Gog, Kuyt and Babel are top class strikers". They don't say "I think you are being very harsh on Arbeloa, I think he's a top class right back". They don't come back at Owzat and say "hang on, those stats don't indicate what you say they do/those stats are factually incorrect". No, they dispute the posters right to voice an opinion. Because it's too negative for their taste.

I've undertook to but out of the forum, and I'll stick to my pledge. It's a shame though that a whole portion of people, despite being in the overwhelming majority from what I can see simply cannot bring themselves to even tolerate a dissenting voice.

Dissenting voice??Put it this way Mick...your yappy dissenting voice has been all I have heard on this forum for a long time!Its..IF Rafa does this IF Rafa does that IF Rafa blah blah blah?
Well ..I'll tell you what,despite all you hear (on the other side of the world) people are not actually so defeatist here.They may be on this board but its not an implication on how LFC fans feel.This place guts me of late and you are the conductor.
Its a bout time ya hit home cause that NZ sex toy cr@p does not suit you!Or maybe it does?

Anyway. I did say to someone in PM who very kindly and lovelily (which is absolutely typical of them) said that they were sorry they'd had a pop, that there was no need to apologise, I totally undertood their point.

I said that if you logged onto an Aston Villa site as of now, there'd be a large group of people thinking they can win the league. They can't of course, but dreaming and getting excited is what being a football fan is all about. They should be able to dream in peace without some boring feck coming on and telling them that in his opinion, it was unlikley because of 29 reasons.

Now we've got more chance than them, much more chance. And I accept that people should be able to enjoy the tussle without having to listen to me repeating myself over and over about the intricacies of the whole thing.

That's why I'm taking a back seat as of now, I've always stressed that if people moderated themselves we wouldn't need Bob to waste his time sorting out spats, he could do more of his excellent football posting.

So I'm moderating myself and cutting down on the umber of threads I'll post in. For people like baz who are tired of it all, and me all, provided you're not in this thread, or threads which I've started or are of a similar type, you won't hear hide nor hair of me.

I've heard what people are saying, it's OK.

by **Number 9** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:54 am

bigmick wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's a nice article Igor, and an interesting point of view. Now given the title of the thread, imagine if the roles had been reversed and the thread was called "Why I think Rafa is fecking great" and I had posted up a similar article which held the opposite opinion to this one. People would have gone absolutely off their heads with rage, fecking unbelieveable what this place is coming to etc etc.

I'm very much of the view that everyone, and that means each and every one is entitled to not only have a view, but is entitled to express it as well (provided of course it's not some wind-up idiot who actually supports everton or the Mancs or something). That's what has got me this morning. It's not that people disagree with your view because of course you expect that. It's not that people argue the point because of course that's what it's all about. It's when people dispute your right to hold an opinion, it's when they don't attack the opinion but the fact that you chose to voice it in the first place. "Too much negative sh!t on this place", rather than "I'm going to explain why I disagree".

I start a thread about the squad after five years of the Rafalution and try and evaluate how good it is. People don't come on and say "now hang on, we haven't only got one striker. We've got four because I really do think N'Gog, Kuyt and Babel are top class strikers". They don't say "I think you are being very harsh on Arbeloa, I think he's a top class right back". They don't come back at Owzat and say "hang on, those stats don't indicate what you say they do/those stats are factually incorrect". No, they dispute the posters right to voice an opinion. Because it's too negative for their taste.

I've undertook to but out of the forum, and I'll stick to my pledge. It's a shame though that a whole portion of people, despite being in the overwhelming majority from what I can see simply cannot bring themselves to even tolerate a dissenting voice.

Dissenting voice??Put it this way Mick...your yappy dissenting voice has been all I have heard on this forum for a long time!Its..IF Rafa does this IF Rafa does that IF Rafa blah blah blah?
Well ..I'll tell you what,despite all you hear (on the other side of the world) people are not actually so defeatist here.They may be on this board but its not an implication on how LFC fans feel.This place guts me of late and you are the conductor.
Its a bout time ya hit home cause that NZ sex toy cr@p does not suit you!Or maybe it does?

Anyway. I did say to someone in PM who very kindly and lovelily (which is absolutely typical of them) said that they were sorry they'd had a pop, that there was no need to apologise, I totally undertood their point.

I said that if you logged onto an Aston Villa site as of now, there'd be a large group of people thinking they can win the league. They can't of course, but dreaming and getting excited is what being a football fan is all about. They should be able to dream in peace without some boring feck coming on and telling them that in his opinion, it was unlikley because of 29 reasons.

Now we've got more chance than them, much more chance. And I accept that people should be able to enjoy the tussle without having to listen to me repeating myself over and over about the intricacies of the whole thing.

That's why I'm taking a back seat as of now, I've always stressed that if people moderated themselves we wouldn't need Bob to waste his time sorting out spats, he could do more of his excellent football posting.

So I'm moderating myself and cutting down on the umber of threads I'll post in. For people like baz who are tired of it all, and me all, provided you're not in this thread, or threads which I've started or are of a similar type, you won't hear hide nor hair of me.

I've heard what people are saying, it's OK.

by **Effes** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:58 am

Number 9 wrote:Dissenting voice??Put it this way Mick...your yappy dissenting voice has been all I have heard on this forum for a long time!Its..IF Rafa does this IF Rafa does that IF Rafa blah blah blah?
Well ..I'll tell you what,despite all you hear (on the other side of the world) people are not actually so defeatist here (in N. Ireland.)They may be on this board but its not an implication on how LFC fans feel. *** This place guts me of late and you are the conductor.
Its a bout time ya hit home cause that NZ sex toy cr@p does not suit you!Or maybe it does?

*** Well, you see that's where I disagree.

I live and work in Liverpool, and therefore hear views often of Reds who aren't part of this forum. (Im not saying they have a monopoly on what's right or wrong). There is a minority, only about a handful, who have told me that they dont think Rafa has what it takes to win the league.
These are match-going Reds.
Now, whether you like it or not, there are people out there with this opinion.

The funny thing is, there is never an argument when people express these doubts. Their views are respected.

I wish the same could be on here. Ive not "yapped" on about Rafa cant do this, Rafa cant do that. But I have beed critical a few times. Haven't we all?

You said Rafa had to go on page 1 of this thread; but no one gave you down the banks did they?

Just let people discuss the football aspects, and leave personal attacks out of it. It'll be a better place for it.

by **Effes** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:17 am

Perfect example.

Im doing a nighshift in work, just been for a ciggy in the smoking hut.
Bump into a fella who's a match going Red (shares a season ticket), but Im not sure on his view on Rafa.

So I ask him whether he thinks Rafa has it in him to win the league.
He shakes his head, and says "Nah"; he states that we are in a good position, but he just doesn't believe in Rafa.
I state that Im non-comittal on it, and we talk how it's gone so far in the league.
We finish our ciggies and go.

There you go - no arguments, just a brief exchange of views.

Right - that's the last Im saying on the matter.

by **justice** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:22 am

So why was heimdall banned then?

What a joke, this foum has become an absolute fecking disgrace where the mods run roughshot over anyone who is critical of Rafa. Can one of the mods have the common decency to explain to the rest of the forum what Heimdall actually did wrong with his post what rule was broken or was it just childish retaliation?

by **Number 9** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:29 am

Heimdall fights back..Twatys revenge! :laugh:

by **Number 9** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:30 am

Absolute class! :laugh:

by **justice** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:35 am

Number 9 wrote:Absolute class!

So do you think it's fair Heimdall got banned for his post to Woof?

BTW You've changed your tune a bit since since page one of this thread haven't you, bit fickle are we Number 9?

by **Number 9** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:39 am

justice wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Absolute class!

So do you think it's fair Heimdall got banned for his post to Woof?

BTW You've changed your tune a bit since since page one of this thread haven't you, bit fickle are we Number 9?

No Heimdall but I think you are annoying?Yes I have xchanged my idioligy from page one..fecking hell!
Sue me

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:41 am

Im staying out of this one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&g
t;>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exit stage right for IGOR .

by **justice** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:47 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Im staying out of this one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&a
mp;g
t;>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exit stage right for IGOR .

Very sensible Igor, if you say anything negative to some of the mods then its an automatic ban it seems. This forum has turned into a kind of totalitarian regime. :no

Think of it this way, if I can get banned then any one of you can, who's going to be the next to annoy the mod(s) who banned me? Is the plan to drive out anybody who is critical of Rafa? Well if it is then good luck becuase this forum will very rapidly become obsolete if open discussion is banned.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:14 am

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

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