Liverpool FC Forum

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:00 pm

Twas a sweet freekick from inside the penaly area (handball from a backpass by the goalie ) ,and i have to call you up on that one aswell mick . Aurelio hit it perfectly low and hard into yhe right hand corner of the goal , twas not a mishit shot mate . No way ,not in a million years.

by **bigmick** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:08 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Twas a sweet freekick from inside the penaly area (handball from a backpass by the goalie ) ,and i have to call you up on that one aswell mick . Aurelio hit it perfectly low and hard into yhe right hand corner of the goal , twas not a mishit shot mate . No way ,not in a million years.

It's probably consistent with the way we see things mate that I called it a mishit and you reckon he hit it sweet

Main thing is it went in of course (GET IN THERE FFS!!!!) and I'm not sure enough to debate it. I just got the impression he kind of screwed it but no bother either way. He does strike a lovely shot though no doubt about it, and he was bang unlucky with the one in the first half.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:19 pm

bigmick wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Twas a sweet freekick from inside the penaly area (handball from a backpass by the goalie ) ,and i have to call you up on that one aswell mick . Aurelio hit it perfectly low and hard into yhe right hand corner of the goal , twas not a mishit shot mate . No way ,not in a million years.

It's probably consistent with the way we see things mate that I called it a mishit and you reckon he hit it sweet Main thing is it went in of course (GET IN THERE FFS!!!!) and I'm not sure enough to debate it. I just got the impression he kind of screwed it but no bother either way. He does strike a lovely shot though no doubt about it, and he was bang unlucky with the one in the first half.

booo no debating it ,now you are being are boring farty .

Oh and GET THE FECK IN THERE indeed my good man.

by **Bam** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:24 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Set up i think !!!!! For SABRE .

REINA

SKRTLE CARRA AGGER

ARBELOA MASHERANO AURELIO DOSSENA

BENAYOUN BABLE

N'GOG

by **Sabre** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:40 am

Fabio Aurelio's hit was a good one. Perhaps if the oppo player kept guarding his post he could have avoided it but that was a strong hit which definitely looked for that spot.

I think that today's formation was a classic example of how sometimes Rafa decides to customize a team selection after studying their rival. Today he seeked in my opinion to try to minimize the positional threat of Crouch. Rafa was spot on in considering that Pompey's main threat, but the formation didn't go that well because Crouch and Nugent did manage to make some harm to our defence, and got several freekicks for their team, one of them ended up in a goal.

It was a bitter experience for me to see Crouch playing for another team because I always rated the player, he's difficult to mark, and at the end of the much he's done a lot of productive things for his team, beyond the nice assist he gave. It seemed that for Carra it was also somewhat bitter to meet him again because he sent him a couple of messages in some clashes.

That was, in the other hand the first game I've seen Aurelio out of the wing, and I'd say he did a pretty job for an unusual position for him.

So, I can understand that when we have another formation, with players out of their usual position, the alarms can go off in some people.

I think that selection was nor a genius' one nor a disasterous one. It failed to neutralise the main threat it seeked to neutralize, but I'd say that over the 90 minutes the better team won, so I can't say it was a disasterous team selection neither.

Liverpool were the better team. Then of course football is football, if Babel misses a sitter, if a Pompey defender makes a gift to Torres, that's the things that decide matches, and the results are the ones which at the end makes decissions right or wrong. We won, and I won't say it was a master game plan, but if we had drawn the game I wouldn't be saying it was a ridiculous game plan neither.

by **Effes** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:46 am

Sabre - did Aurelio ever play Centre Midfield for Valencia.
I'm hearing he did, which maybe makes today's selection not so "crazy"

by **Sabre** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:49 am

If he did, I don't remember it Effes.

I'll try to look for it in Spanish old web sites, but I honestly can't remember it.

Crazy or not, I think that anyone seeing Fabio Aurelio playing the position has to acknowledge he's a good player.

What a pity the nightmare of injuries he's been through during his Liverpool era.

by **bigmick** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:10 am

I must confess Sabes I had Aurelio in central midfield with Babel on the left, but we could argue about it all day as the perfromance was very raggedy and disjointed. Funnily enough I was about to post on the team selection, and you kind of "interupted" my train of thought with yours but it's a good one so I'll go off the back of that.

There was a small row in the match thread as some people felt that attempts to allude to such things in the immediate aftermath of the last gasp win were spoiling the fun. I think that's fair enough, but now most fans are in bed and we've come to terms with the fact that we did win it, it's good to have a look at the match I think.

Needless to say but I'll say it anyway, I thought the team selection was bonkers. Unusually however, there may be some mitigating circumstances. I say that not as a bit of fence sitting because we won, if I think the team selection is bonkers I think it regardless of the result. I was happy to say both before and after we beat Newcastle 5-1 the team selection was bonkers, for the simple reason that it was.

Anyway, firstly the mitigating circumstances. Well starting up top, I actually agree that Torres needed a rest. He looked absolutely gone on Wednesday night, and to be perfectly honest I'm pleasantly surprised and encouraged that he wasn't actually injured against Everton. He can't play every game after coming back, and this one was probably as good a game as any to miss. It's a shame we don't have a credible replacement, but we don't because we sold him, so we have a choice of N'gog, Kuyt or Babel. If you're only going to play one up top, I don't think Kuyt is the answer so it's N'Gog or Babel. I must confess I would go with the Dutchman every time, though I'm glad I never said that before he kicked air with an open goal in front of him. The truth is, none of them are good enough up front I don't think, so it's not an easy choice.

Riera has been so poor recently that I'm not sure whether he was rotated or dropped. Either way I don't have a a particular problem with it, and Babel is the obvious replacement. Similarly on the right, Benayoun has done well recently (and did again today I must admit) so he was due a start. That he got one in front of Kuyt was a surprise, I would probably have switched him with Riera and put Babel up top in place of N'gog, but there you go.

Central midfield going with Aurelio while leaving Alonso on the bench was absolutely stark raving bonkers. Aurelio did quite well as it happens, but it doesn't change the fact (or in my opinion it's a fact :laugh:

) that it was a bonkers decision.

At the back, Dossena I suppose has to play sometimes considering he was 7 million quid, while Arby is a must down the right. At centre half, we decided to go with three players rather than two. Sabes has offered up that it was to counter Crouch, but I suspect if that was the reason then Hyppia would have been one of them. I must admit, I just don't know what the reason was. I can't call that one bonkers, because I don't actually know what it is I'm criticising. More than bonkers, I'll stick with the b's and go for baffling. Anybody criticising this post can go with the same theme and call it utter b0ll0cks.

Another mitigating circumstance is we're about to play Man City and unfortunately half the players aren't available for one reason or another. Some of them suspended, others are injured, and one or two we've sold to somebody else. Given that, I suppose it's fair enough to kind of give some of these selections a go as we're going to need a bit of imagination shall we say against Man City.

Now I know whenever you discuss such things as this, some people get a bit hot under the collar. Things to remember though are firstly that this is the rotation thread and if you can't handle the subject, stay out of the thread. Secondly, I know some will say "but we won the game so all bets are off re the selection, it worked". They may even stick an "end of!" at the end of it, as it appears to make some people feel it gives the point more emphasis. I totally disagree with that though. We were 2-1 down and in severe danger of losing the match with 4 minutes to go, and actually won it with a goal 90 seconds into injury time. This I think indicates quite emphatically that the team selection didn't work. This is further emphasised by the huge difference to proceedings Alonso, Torres and even Kuyt made when they came on, end of!

Just as an aside, a couple of people have made the poiint that Rafa deserves credit for bringing on the subs when he did. I'd agree with that, if we are going to say it was wrong to bring off both Torres and Gerrard against Wigan when we needed a goal (which it obviously was) it's only fair to point out it was a good idea to bring on Torres, Alonso and Kuyt today when we needed some goals. He doesn't quite get a "well done" from me (they are as hard to come by off me as they apparently are off him) though, as at least one of the players should have been on the pitch in the first place IMHO, Alonso.

by **Effes** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:25 am

Mick - I think the points you make are valid, it could easily have gone the other way
and Rafa would have had a lot to answer for.
So I guess what cant be denied is that it was very brave of Rafa.

I asked Sabre to verify if Aurelio had played CM before (for Valencia, because if he did
then this doesn't seem as crazy as I first thought.

by **Sabre** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:12 am

I checked the word bonkers in urbandictionary to make sure, and I see it's loco. crazy. nuts.

Well, I disagree, but that's what we come for here. I think it was strange, unpredictable, didn't work very well, but didn't work badly either, and that's all. We won.

I disagree another tiny bit of your good post, the one about Hyypia. I disagree because I think we all could see that Crouch was paid an especial attention. But as much as the attention was big, our CB didn't actually bother to try to win an aerial challenge to Crouch. Rather, they tried to anticipate and go as quick as a thunder to closely mark him whenever he received the ball. Winning an aerial challenge to Crouch is next to impossible and the best thing to counter him is either to anticipate, and to be very close to him and aware of the dead balls he lefts for other team mates. (Disclaimer: I might be totally wrong, just telling things I think I perceived)

Since the defence was zonal this "stick to Crouch's :censored:

as soon as he gets it" thing was done depending the zone Crouch occupied. Most of the times Crouchie was in the Skrtl zone I think, less frequently with Carra, and rarely with Agger.

So I don't know if it was that a bad idea not thinking of using Hyypia to counter Crouch.

by **bigmick** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:07 am

Good point on the Hyppia question Sabes, I've given it some thought and I might have to give you that one.

The one good thing to come out of us playing with the three centre halves was it gave Agger an excuse to provide the one bit of sheer quality of the first hour. An Alonsoesque drilled crossfield pass in the first half was right out of the very top sock drawer.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:11 am

The team selection might be bonkers, rafa might have lost the plot... but I saw a very encouraging sign from this team, in the second half towards the end, and that is urgency. We were finally trying to win the game. In alot of other matches once we drew the players seem to hang their heads down and resort to long balls. If we gotten a draw it seems like it was ok. Gerrard would go on his solo runs in vain because no other player would follow him. This team, even when we were losing 2-1 with five minutes to go, you can see all of them believed they could come back. Benayoun was attacking the defenders, alonso was controlling the middle with clever passes. Mascherano was attacking the gaps in the middle with his bursts of runs and little through balls, Aurelio was attacking the left, and kuyt was harrying opponents and getting shots on goal. After we levelled at 2-2 the team again pressed for the win and we got it through benayoun's very good cross and torres' brilliant header. What can I say about torres. He's just brilliant. He's not fully fit yet health wise and form wise, but he is already scoring goals. He's lethal and intelligent and has good technique. Hopefully he will continue to improve and be back to 100% fit. Also this is the perfect opportunity for Benayoun to step up in Gerrard's absence as he seem to prefer the attacking midfield role and he hasn't disappionted so far. Alonso, Kuyt, and Torres all seemed to have benefitted from the rest IMO and that something is what Benitez seemed to have gotten right because it was very encouraging the way we finished the game and the way we showed our spirit.

Biggest disappointment would be babel. If anyone's losing the plot then he is. Also abit disappointed with Reina. I thought he should've done better for the 2nd goal. These are the saves that keepers like Given and Friedel consistently do and there's no reason why Reina couldn't have saved that.

by **NiftyNeil** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:23 am

I missed the match yesterday due to work. I got told the full time result was 2-2, imagine my delight when I found out we won 3-2 - over an hour later. When I watched the highlights on MOTD, I couldn't believe the fuss they were making of the formation and selection. Did Hansen and Shearer not watch the match in the week? Did they not realise that a lot of our players had played in several consecutive games and were knackered? Hansen even said that we would have got punished if we were playing a top side with that team selection last night. WTF! Does anyone honestly believe that we'd have played that team against United? Pompey have got one of the worst, if not the worst recent run of form in the Premiership. Ideal conditions for a bit of rotation (and experimentation) if you ask me.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:33 am

NiftyNeil wrote:I missed the match yesterday due to work. I got told the full time result was 2-2, imagine my delight when I found out we won 3-2 - over an hour later. When I watched the highlights on MOTD, I couldn't believe the fuss they were making of the formation and selection. Did Hansen and Shearer not watch the match in the week? Did they not realise that a lot of our players had played in several consecutive games and were knackered? Hansen even said that we would have got punished if we were playing a top side with that team selection last night. WTF! Does anyone honestly believe that we'd have played that team against United? Pompey have got one of the worst, if not the worst recent run of form in the Premiership. Ideal conditions for a bit of rotation (and experimentation) if you ask me.

true... I wouldn't say it was an ideal condition for experimentation as we just can't afford experimentation at this point but it was a good game for some rotation, resting our tired key players like torres, alonso, and kuyt.

by **Owzat** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:34 am

If we hadn't taken 210 mins to go out to the bitters because Rafa couldn't conjure up a win against them at Anfield, then we wouldn't be neck deep in :censored:

. We lost Lucas through suspension and Gerrard to injury because of that costly replay - and Torres was left on for 192 mins.

So it may be true our players are suffering a bit from injury and tiredness, but it is down to that replay and that was down to Rafa. He should be using his players better, instead of running them into the ground and taking off Riera every game and barely resting any key players. If we had a better squad it wouldn't be an issue, but he fell out with Keane and sold one of our two realistic alternative strikers. And how many of our players are out on loan? Pennant and Voronin of those more senior. Sold Keane without replacing him. He runs Kuyt into the ground, 2870 mins played this season - about 82.5% of all minutes Liverpool have played.

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