Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:19 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
akumaface wrote:Let me state this first as I don't like Lucas as I think his physique is not made for a DM in EPL. Maybe in some less physical league. I think if you compare him to the last couple of games, he did played better last night. I think to most of us, we demand something better as we are used to world class CM like Alonso, Mascher and SG. I really think it is unfair to expect Lucas to eventually play like any of them. The sad truth to me is if Lucas can't eventually play like them, I think he is not good enough to be around. I prefer to have Sissoko back since he is excellent in defending and breaking up play. I know he can't pass nor carry the ball but at least he excel in the defensive area rather than being average on both ends. I don't mind Lucas playing in the reserve, carling cup or being a sub in the final minute but please let other players who got more potential and talent to play and development.

I'm sorry but you don't know what the you're talking about. Lucas was very good in the last two away matches, where his passing and movement was superb. You just choose to focus on the negatives in his game like many of our spoiled fans do. Why don't you criticize the "world class" Gerrard for his performance yesterday? He was terrible.

what are you on about ? dont know what game you were watching but from what iv seen i havent seen any good movement.. no great passing, infact it was pretty much sht all game.. puts our players under pressure many times with his passes and doesnt seem to have any sort of confidence in his ability at all ... he's a hard worker in the middle.. he hustles here and there but thats about it..
he has absolutely no contribution to our attacking play .. and at the defensive end he's average at best... you look at what the other top 4 have in the respectie position, how they contribute to their sides and how theyr actually needed there rather than just played to get minutes on the pitch, and you realize just how bad a player he is.... absolutely out of place at a club like liverpool and for the life of me cant understand why we'd still play 5 in midfield if Mascherano, Gerrard, AND Alonso arent ALL fit and inform...

by **Fo Dne** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:35 pm

murphy0151 wrote:
puroresu wrote:Lucas isnt a very good tackler. Considering his a defensive midfield player I feelhis timing on tackles is wrong more times than it should be.

Lucas isint even a defensive midfielder. For Gremio he was more attcking mid than defensive.

Judge Lucas at the end of next season. Hes had to deal with a big big change in all aspects of his life. From Football to culture.

He will never improve if the boo boys get on every last given mistake he makes. Fans of today depress me bigtime.

Clever supporters

You're right, its the supporters fault he can't control a ball!

:laugh:

by **Rush Job** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:34 am

puroresu wrote:Lucas isnt a very good tackler. Considering his a defensive midfield player I feelhis timing on tackles is wrong more times than it should be.

Half the forum dont even know what possition he plays yet they expect their opinions to be heard.
No matter what your opinions of the player are he wasnt, isnt and never will be a fkin defensive mid.

by **bigmick** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:41 am

Rush Job wrote:
puroresu wrote:Lucas isnt a very good tackler. Considering his a defensive midfield player I feelhis timing on tackles is wrong more times than it should be.

Half the forum dont even know what possition he plays yet they expect their opinions to be heard.
No matter what your opinions of the player are he wasnt, isnt and never will be a fkin defensive mid.

Agreed, but he did play as one against Arsenal. Like Sabre I was very surprised to see him playing pretty much the whole match behind Alonso, although that said I'm not sure I disagree with it as Xabi has been playing very well pushed up a bit.

I do think that in the past Lucas has deserved much of the criticism he has recieved, and I also take the view that Masherano should play in front of him, but having said all of that I don't see how anyone can seriously say he was awful against Arsenal. He was tidy, pinged it about, kept it moving etc etc. I've said a couple of times he plays it a bit too safe all the time for my liking, I'd like to see him express himself a bit more personally. He wasn't awful though, far from it in my view.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:06 am

aCe' wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:
akumaface wrote:Let me state this first as I don't like Lucas as I think his physique is not made for a DM in EPL. Maybe in some less physical league. I think if you compare him to the last couple of games, he did played better last night. I think to most of us, we demand something better as we are used to world class CM like Alonso, Mascher and SG. I really think it is unfair to expect Lucas to eventually play like any of them. The sad truth to me is if Lucas can't eventually play like them, I think he is not good enough to be around. I prefer to have Sissoko back since he is excellent in defending and breaking up play. I know he can't pass nor carry the ball but at least he excel in the defensive area rather than being average on both ends. I don't mind Lucas playing in the reserve, carling cup or being a sub in the final minute but please let other players who got more potential and talent to play and development.

I'm sorry but you don't know what the you're talking about. Lucas was very good in the last two away matches, where his passing and movement was superb. You just choose to focus on the negatives in his game like many of our spoiled fans do. Why don't you criticize the "world class" Gerrard for his performance yesterday? He was terrible.

what are you on about ? dont know what game you were watching but from what iv seen i havent seen any good movement.. no great passing, infact it was pretty much sht all game.. puts our players under pressure many times with his passes and doesnt seem to have any sort of confidence in his ability at all ... he's a hard worker in the middle.. he hustles here and there but thats about it..
he has absolutely no contribution to our attacking play .. and at the defensive end he's average at best... you look at what the other top 4 have in the respectie position, how they contribute to their sides and how theyr actually needed there rather than just played to get minutes on the pitch, and you realize just how bad a player he is.... absolutely out of place at a club like liverpool and for the life of me cant understand why we'd still play 5 in midfield if Mascherano, Gerrard, AND Alonso arent ALL fit and inform...

We dominated them in midfield for large portions of the game and Lucas played a big part in that. I'm sorry if you cannot see that.

by **Toffeehater** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:22 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
akumaface wrote:Let me state this first as I don't like Lucas as I think his physique is not made for a DM in EPL. Maybe in some less physical league. I think if you compare him to the last couple of games, he did played better last night. I think to most of us, we demand something better as we are used to world class CM like Alonso, Mascher and SG. I really think it is unfair to expect Lucas to eventually play like any of them. The sad truth to me is if Lucas can't eventually play like them, I think he is not good enough to be around. I prefer to have Sissoko back since he is excellent in defending and breaking up play. I know he can't pass nor carry the ball but at least he excel in the defensive area rather than being average on both ends. I don't mind Lucas playing in the reserve, carling cup or being a sub in the final minute but please let other players who got more potential and talent to play and development.

I'm sorry but you don't know what the you're talking about. Lucas was very good in the last two away matches, where his passing and movement was superb. You just choose to focus on the negatives in his game like many of our spoiled fans do. Why don't you criticize the "world class" Gerrard for his performance yesterday? He was terrible.

spot on , lucas played well against arsenal . His job is to rough up players like masch would do . Some of the fouls he committed were not serious until the 80th minute where he got booked so i don't know how anyone can say he should have been off . His passing has been better in the last two games , psv and arsenal

by **akumaface** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:14 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
akumaface wrote:Let me state this first as I don't like Lucas as I think his physique is not made for a DM in EPL. Maybe in some less physical league. I think if you compare him to the last couple of games, he did played better last night. I think to most of us, we demand something better as we are used to world class CM like Alonso, Mascher and SG. I really think it is unfair to expect Lucas to eventually play like any of them. The sad truth to me is if Lucas can't eventually play like them, I think he is not good enough to be around. I prefer to have Sissoko back since he is excellent in defending and breaking up play. I know he can't pass nor carry the ball but at least he excel in the defensive area rather than being average on both ends. I don't mind Lucas playing in the reserve, carling cup or being a sub in the final minute but please let other players who got more potential and talent to play and development.

Metalhead - see above.

Haha, yes I do. Sorry that English is not my first language and I guess it is funny to you guys. Well, I remember people saying judge Lucas at the end of last season. And I guess we can use this excuse again this year. I would be glad if he can prove me wrong. If in fact we could find a diamond in the rough, that would be excellent. I guess we shouldn't discuss anything until the end of the season. Lucas did played a better game but far from a decent game. I think it is a good thing to lower your expectation so that everybody is happy.

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:38 pm

LUCAS = SHIT PLAYER

by **Madmax** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:25 pm

Judge wrote:LUCAS = SHIT PLAYER

great slogan. Lucas is a decent player and bit of a dull player at times. He would be great at spurs or pompy. Dont think he is top 4 class

by **Simari** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Lucas is playing the same way that Alonso played the last season, nothing adventurous but keeping it simple.

Alonso showed us what he could do from the outset and as such, his performances for the past season or 2 were not what we expected. This year is a throwback to his early days and is a BIG reason for our position in the table.

I've only seen snippets of Lucas from his days at Gremio. But there is no doubt he was an attacking midfielder not a defensive one - even in the Brazilian league. He is by no means a defensive midfielder. On the contrary, my view is that he is under instructions from Rafa to learn more about team movements each game he starts.

To be honest, I really don't know how he could fit into our side. It would have to be at the expense of Gerrard - perhaps, when Stevie is subbed or needs to be rested. The bigger problem is that he doesn't have the physical attributes (pace, acceleration or strength) to ride/skip challenges from the bigger players, unlike Stevie.

Modric at Spurs, is the closest there is in this league whom I would compare him with. In my opinion, there appears to be a huge gulf in class and I can't really see the kid developing into someone who can roam freely in the final third and unlock defenses.

Perhaps he has something in store for us, but if he hasn't shown even glimpses of trickery/skill so far, I can't see where it will come from.

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:17 pm

Simari wrote:Lucas is playing the same way that Alonso played the last season, nothing adventurous but keeping it simple.

good god man, if lucas got anymore simple he'd be classed as a retard

by **aCe'** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:07 pm

Judge wrote:
Simari wrote:Lucas is playing the same way that Alonso played the last season, nothing adventurous but keeping it simple.

good god man, if lucas got anymore simple he'd be classed as a retard

agree with that... gets a little too frustrating sometimes... i mean ffs you got acres of space infront of you why oh fcking why would you recieve the ball, turn around and pass it to a defender or a fullback or Alonso or whatever instead of taking a few steps and maybe running at someone and trying to get midfielders/defenders out of position... our wingers all have shiite movement off the ball anyways (including Riera id go as far as saying).. theyr all more comfortable getting the ball at feet then deciding what it is they want to do with it... other than that theyr either look for the long ball or stay 2 inches away from the fullback to track back incase we somehow lose the ball...

ATLEAST one of Mascherano/Alonso/Lucas has to be a little more positive when on the ball and hold it up or run with it for a few more seconds... We'll always struggle to unlock defenses and the only thing i saw running with the ball across the middle of the park against arsenal was Agger.. and it looked pretty dangerous in both occasions

by **woof woof !** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:35 pm

Madmax wrote:
Judge wrote:LUCAS = SHIT PLAYER

great slogan. Lucas is a decent player and bit of a dull player at times. He would be great at spurs or pompy. Dont think he is top 4 class

Interesting point about Lucas being "great" at spurs or pompey . My take is that he'd receive even more criticism if he was at any other prem side. At LFC he is at least surrounded by good-top players, can you really imagine him turning it on at Spurs, Pompey or god forbid Bolton or any other prem side you care to mention where he might actually have to show something ? .

Don't want to be to hard on the lad, (I know I started this thread) but imo the fella's got some skill but unfortunately attempting to display that skill in the English premiership has probably come 3-4 years to early for this player, Outside of South America, Spain or Italy would have been a better place for him to learn his trade and hone his skills. at the minute as far as i'm concerned it's wrong time wrong place.

by **7_Kewell** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:49 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Madmax wrote:
Judge wrote:LUCAS = SHIT PLAYER

great slogan. Lucas is a decent player and bit of a dull player at times. He would be great at spurs or pompy. Dont think he is top 4 class

Interesting point about Lucas being "great" at spurs or pompey . My take is that he'd receive even more criticism if he was at any other prem side. At LFC he is at least surrounded by good-top players, can you really imagine him turning it on at Spurs, Pompey or god forbid Bolton or any other prem side you care to mention where he might actually have to show something ? .

Don't want to be to hard on the lad, (I know I started this thread) but imo the fella's got some skill but unfortunately attempting to display that skill in the English premiership has probably come 3-4 years to early for this player, Outside of South America, Spain or Italy would have been a better place for him to learn his trade and hone his skills. at the minute as far as i'm concerned it's wrong time wrong place.

radio 5 have a south american reporter called Tim Vickery who has voiced this very concern, and not just in regards to Lucas...Paletta too and a few others. It seems one of the biggest factors in a South American failing over here is the fact he's brought over too early. Generally these guys either need to stay in their own country untli their early 20s or learn their game in Spain, where the football is a bit slower and less physical. Personally i think Lucas has improved this season, but sadly i can't see him becoming the 'gerrard' type player Rafa claimed him to be when we signed him.

by **peterc1992** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:28 am

Hes a good football...give him more time .hes was quality back in Brazil and hes still trying to get suited to the english game.hes very lightweight at the minute but eventually i think he will be quality

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