Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bam** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:52 am

s@int wrote:TBH Mick thats how the Academy is run, totally independent of Rafa. The problem is Rafa isn't and wasn't happy with that situation and to an extent has decided if he can't run the academy he will buy young players and let them train at Melwood, where he has control.

Unfortunately this has meant that young players arn't graduating from the Academy, and are having to be moved on to other clubs, while even the poorer players who Rafa has brought in are given numerous chances in the reserves.

There is a lot of conflict at the moment, Rafa doesn't get on with the coaches that Parry has brought in. The coaches are upset that players they are recommending to be promoted to the reserves arn't being given the chance, and at the end of the day its the young kids that are suffering because of this. The whole setup seems to be split into two at the moment, with a lot of ill feeling all round.

If thats true Rafa needs to pull his head in.

What has happened though to the likes of Nemeth and Pacheo ?

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:00 am

Which kind of brings my other point in S@int about the size of the squad. At the end of the day the club is too big to allow ego's to dictate the way things are going to continue. It's time someone knocked some heads together if people can't get along with each other, but given the new money and the new acumen coming into the game I cannot see the situation as is being allowed to continue forever either at our club or anywhere else.

The way we're running the thing right now is akin to a business importing the finst Italian curtains on the off chance they may be needed next year, whilst also ignoring the fact you have unused Spanish curtians in the cupboard which you bought last month. Given the cost of buying new players, even those of a mediocre quality, it really is of the utmost importance that we start to produce at least a few young players. Someone mentioned Gerrard earlier and was convinced that he would have come through the ranks no matter what, I'm not by any means convinced to be perfectly honest. He came through initially at right back, that aint easy ask this Darby kid. Then he got a few games in central midfield (which he wouldn't do now) and then went on from there.

I'm just thinking out aloud here, but I think clubs are going to have to move towards compulsion in terms of getting managers to use youngsters. When you give the bloke in charge the option of buying in a player for a couple of million, when he's usually getting more experience and the outside chance he's going to buy himself a gem and grab a bit of glory for a "good pick", the managers will rarely plump for a young kid or so it seems. Also it appears that at some point in the not too distant, UEFa will get around the European labour laws and impose a "local" player restriction on clubs. Might be time to look at getting ahead of the game for once.

by **Fo Dne** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:56 am

bigmick wrote:I was thinking about this the other day. You get a new manager in, and he has his own ideas about youth development. Once he's gone, it all changes etc etc. The manager stands or falls by the results of the first team, and frankly whether or not some 13 year old kid is going to develop into an International footballer by the time he's in his early 20's is 99 times out of 100 irrelevant to the manager as he'll be gone by then anyway.

It strikes me that a club like Liverpool really ought to have it's own scouting set-up, coaching set up and support network for kids which is completely independant of who is the manager of the first team. Equally, a club rich in tradition within a relatively working class area ought to have a moral duty to the community to do it's upmost to develop a smattering of local kids as well.

I'm effectively saying that the manager of the first team shouldn't be in charge of recruitment for the youngsters, they should have their own budget for aquisitions and their own programme for player development. It's kind of like we have a long term project (which all youngsters are) but we macro manage it with changes in the structure all the time.

It then follows of course that the manager undertakes to use wherever possible the kids as back up for the first team. it just seems crazy to me that we spend the time, money, effort and energy recruiting the likes of Nemeth from Hungary, develop him for three years or so and then spend 1.5 million quid bringing in Egg Nog to be in front of him. the likelyhood is neither are good enough, but the system and structure we currently have simply isn't cutting it.

Time for a Dario gradi/Steve Hieghway figure to be given a ten year contract and a budget I reckon.

This winds me up to the extent i could post a 50 paragraph post on it but no :censored:

would read it.

Fact is, Benitez doesn't have a clue about young players.

£14,000,000 on Dossena and Lucas.
£3,500,000 recouped on Warnock and Guthrie.

I know which two I'd rather have all day. Infact, I'd put my life on it 99% of liverpool fans would agree with me aswell.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:08 am

The thing is though every league match is so important when is he supposed to play them? And if he did and we lost he would get hammered.
Its a shame we went out the league cup in the sense that thats their only real chance to impress.
Signing like N gog baffle me, we already have 4 strikers if you include Babel so his place should have gone to a youngster.

by **Owzat** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:37 am

NANNY RED wrote:NORTH WEST Premier League clubs whose current squads contain Academy graduates with at least one league appearance to their name

LIVERPOOL

None

EVERTON

Jack Rodwell

Jose Baxter

Leon Osman

James Vaughan

Tony Hibbert

Victor Anichebe

MANCHESTER CITY

Micah Richards

Nedum Onuoha

Michael Johnson

Daniel Sturridge

MANCHESTER UTD

Danny Welbeck

Jonny Evans

BLACKBURN

Keith Treacy

Matt Derbyshire

BOLTON

Joey O'Brien

WIGAN

Luke Ashworth

Those are very nice in theory, but with smaller clubs they often have to bring through kids into small squads because they don't have a comparable budget.

But it does worry me that both citeh and their (and our) manc rivals are bringing through very good kids. By the way, is Ched Evans of citeh not eligible? I think he's worth a mention even if he isn't eligible EDIT : came through Chester's youth set up, still young enough and succeeding enough to merit mention IMHO. Getting more chance than a lot of the Rafa kid signings

Ched Evans (Man City 08/09)

1 goal in 9 Premiership appearances
0 goal 3 UEFA Cup appearances

CAREER : 2 goals in 5 Wales appearances

by **Owzat** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:42 am

Rush Job wrote:The thing is though every league match is so important when is he supposed to play them? And if he did and we lost he would get hammered.
Its a shame we went out the league cup in the sense that thats their only real chance to impress.
Signing like N gog baffle me, we already have 4 strikers if you include Babel so his place should have gone to a youngster.

Our bench often looks pretty awful, I mean what was Mascherano on the bench for on Monday? There are seven slots on the bench, two of those could be used up by kids. I'm not 100% set on the idea, but since N'Gog doesn't do a lot, there's no point having someone like Mascherano on the bench and we needed to shake it up up front then why not have a kid or two on the bench?

I mean two of Rafa's two or three subs a match are often someone on for Keane and Babel on for Riera. Are Rafa's subs that effective? Anyone know if someone has scored as sub this season other than Babel? (his ONLY goal, as sub vs the mancs) EDIT : or made an impact as sub, I'd guess maybe El Zhar once or twice, yet can't get on the bench regularly

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Young players. - Should their development be independant?

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