How long as he got? - AKA "Rafa's Last Chance" thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Rafa D » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:29 pm

s@int wrote:Rafa has bought 50 players and has paid out £162million + for them. So to say he has had no money and has had to settle for 3rd and fourth choices is a load of cr@p. EVERY MANAGER including Mourinho has had to settle for other than their first choices or Kaka, Torres, Gerrard and Ronaldo would be on every managers shopping list.

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Rafael Benítez sold 54 players for £92,825,000

So thats about £69M in 5 seasons of transfers:

Just over £13m net spend every season - WOW.  ???

Thats lower than I thought.

But of course he's had the money hasnt he?
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:37 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:
s@int wrote:Rafa has bought 50 players and has paid out £162million + for them. So to say he has had no money and has had to settle for 3rd and fourth choices is a load of cr@p. EVERY MANAGER including Mourinho has had to settle for other than their first choices or Kaka, Torres, Gerrard and Ronaldo would be on every managers shopping list.

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Rafael Benítez sold 54 players for £92,825,000

So thats about £69M in 5 seasons of transfers:

Just over £13m net spend every season - WOW.  ???

Thats lower than I thought.

But of course he's had the money hasnt he?

£45MILLION of that came from selling the "nothing players" that he was left by Houllier. Which knocks it back up to over £20million in each of the five seasons of transfers, or still well over £100million   :p
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Postby Rafa D » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:44 pm

I'll fu.cking bum you sunshine. :laugh:

Circles and roundabouts.

I'm not commenting on it till season kicks off now.

Peace !
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:49 pm

Rafa-Dodd wrote:I'll fu.cking bum you sunshine. :laugh:

Only in your dreams mate   :laugh:

peace  :D
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Postby woof woof ! » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:52 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:F'uck , I've completly lost the plot now, will somebody remind me what this discussion is all about ?   :p

It's Rafa's last chance, and if he doesn't get it right, S@int and Bamaga are gonna sack him.

:laugh:

Why didn't they just say that at the start instead of inveigling me into a this discussion ?, B'stards  :angry: , whats their next plan, sack Rafa bring back Houllier ?

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Postby Penguins » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:54 pm

s@int wrote:Finnan 4 years ago was better than ANY of the five right backs Rafa has bought.
Hyypia 4 years ago was better than ANY of the 6 CB'S that Rafa has bought - same with Carra.
Gerrard is still better than any of the 103 midfield players Rafa has bought.
Riise 4 years ago was better than Gonzales, Leto, Zenden, and Aurelio, while Kewell is still better than any of our LWingers including Babel.

If Voronin can get a game for us I am pretty sure Baros and Cisse could!

The point I am making (and which you are not getting ) is that Rafa was left with 11 or twelve players that where as good if not better than most of the players he has brought in to replace them. You don't win the CL WITH A TEAM OF CR@P. The team wasn't perfect and the squad was terrible, but there was a lot of good players as well.

If I had to pick a team from how the players were 4 years ago and todays team

                    Reina
Finnan      Carra     Hyypia    Riise

Gerrard      Mascherano Hamann    Kewell

                 Owen    Torres

So thats 8 players from Houlliers team and 3 Rafa buys

Rafa has improved the squad without question but actual improvements to the team have not been so impressive.

Rafa has bought 50 players and has paid out £162million + for them. So to say he has had no money and has had to settle for 3rd and fourth choices is a load of cr@p. EVERY MANAGER including Mourinho has had to settle for other than their first choices or Kaka, Torres, Gerrard and Ronaldo would be on every managers shopping list.

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And how much money has rafa had to spend on right backs?
Josemi cost 2. Exchanged for Kromkamp. Sold for 2.
Arbeloa cost 2.5 Degen cost 0. That is some spending.
A total of 2.5 million which is 1 million less than Finnan cost.
Hmm, so what a huge surprise Finnan was better 4 years ago...

Well, it I think it is way too early to write off Agger and Skrtel in comparison. So far they have looked the business when playing and could be in the same league or even better.
Worth pointing out is that Agger and Skrtel are both considered excellent buys and great bargains by Rafa....
The rest of the CB cost the club practically £0 so no wonder
they wern't good enough.

And now when did Houllier buy Gerrard?
Like it is all Houllier why owen, Gerrard and Carra are good I see.
And who do you suggest Rafa could buy that is better?
Just for some reason you forget that the only midfielder Houillier bought himself that turned out good was Hamann.
Rafa only got us Masch, Alonso, Lucas, Sissoko.

Once again. Let us go through what those players cost.
Gonzales cost 1.5. Leto 2. Zenden and Aurelio cost 0.
Gonzales was sold for 4 million.
So an total outlay of -0.5 million.
So poor from Rafa to not get better. All he had to do was to conjure up some money....
And Riise cost 4.6 million when he arrived from Monaco.
So big surprise he was better 4 years ago even if I think Aurelio is just as good.

And once again you fail to grasp the difference between Cisse and Voronin. Both not good enough. But Voronin cost 0 and Cisse cost 14 million!
That is one big difference and a big waste of money.

And then about that team.....
You say we had a choice with Owen. In h*ll we did.
Just let one of our key players have the option to leave for free. Thank god you're not the manager. We needed that money to buy Alonso and Garcia!
And to even put kewell into that team is baffling.
Was a terrible buy as he could stay fit and never ever got going.

What you don't get is that Houllier wasted over hundred millions and then the price we got to get rid of them wasn't even half of what we paid.
With Rafa it's the complete opposite. morintes is one of the few exceptions when we have lost money on a player.
And if you start blaming rafa for buys like Zenden, Voronin, Degen and so on you really have lost me.
HE HAS TO cause there is no money!

And as a fnal think. let us please go through that list.

Players bought by Rafael Benítez

Player - From - Fee - Date
Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000 17.08.2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005
Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005
Josh Mimms Rotherham United £50,000 16.06.2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free 04.07.2005
Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005
Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005 (Leaving)
Godwin Antwi Real Zaragoza Unknown 15.08.2005
Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000 18.08.2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000 22.08.2005
Ramon Calliste Free Transfer Free 29.08.2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000 20.10.2005
Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange 01.01.2006
Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange 04.01.2006
Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000 12.01.2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006 (Left)
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006 (Left)
Gabriel Paletta Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006
Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006
Astrit Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000 11.01.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan 12.01.2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed 24.01.2007
Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000 30.01.2007
Ronald Huth Tacuary FC Undisclosed 31.01.2007
Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007
Lucas Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Mikel San José Domínguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000 26.08.2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11.01.2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £17,000,000 29.02.2008
Philipp Degen Dortmund Free 03.07.2008
Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04.07.2008
David Ngog Paris St Germain £1,500,000 24.07.2008
Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11.07.2008

Rafael Benítez bought 52 players for £163,666,000

Players sold by Rafael Benítez

Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004
Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004
Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000 14.08.2004
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005
Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005
El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005
Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free 17.06.2005
Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005
Patrice Luzi Unknown Free 01.07.2005
Mark Smyth Unknown Free 01.07.2005
Paul Harrison Unknown Free 01.07.2005
Richie Partridge Unknown Free 01.07.2005
Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free 01.07.2005
Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free 01.07.2005
Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free 01.07.2005
Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000 29.07.2005
Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005
John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange 01.01.2006
Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange 02.01.2006
Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006
Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006
Ramon Calliste Unknown Free 01.07.2006
Robbie Foy Unknown Free 01.07.2006
David Raven Carlisle £0 03.07.2006
Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006
Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006
Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006
Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006
Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006
Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006
Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006
Chris Kirkland Wigan Athletic £3,500,000 27.10.2006
Darren Potter Wolves £250,000 18.01.2007
Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007
Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007
Florent Sinama-Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O'Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000 26.08.2007
James Smith Stockport Free 28.12.2007
Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008
Lee Peltier Yeovil Free 31.01.2008
John Arne Riise AS Roma £4,000,000 01.07.2008
Harry Kewell Free Transfer Free 01.07.2008
Anthony Le Tallec Le Mans Undisclosed 02.07.2008
Peter Crouch Portsmouth £11,000,000
Scott Carson WBA  £3,750,000
Danny Guthrie newcastle £2,250,000

Rafael Benítez sold 52 players for £92,575,000

Total Transfer Balance: 71,091,000

So the truth is Rafa has spent 71 millions bring a practically new team for the future besides Gerrard and Carra.
But you seem to lack the understanding that if Rafa had not sold those players for 92 millions then there is now way he could have bought players for 163 millions.

One thing I think Rafa has been great at is to get value for money. If rafa gets alot of money he gets it right.
Torres a smacking succes. Alonso has been a good buy.
Babel is showing promise.
But when he gets 0-2 millions to spend, what do you expect??
Rafa hasn't been close of diong a Diouf, Cisse, Diao and so on who cost a lot and then nobody wanted them.

And then you end it all buy saying poor Mourinho sometimes had to settle for 2nd best. LMAO.
Talk about huge difference being after the best players in the world and only getting the 2nd best in the world paying constantly 15 million+ for every playing that enters the club.

That is very comparable to Rafa who wants for example Alves and Simao for just above 10 million each and has to settle for
Josemi and Pennant. Tell me you are having a laugh....

Something I do not want to show you is the resale value of the players Houllier bought for 125 millions.
That is for another day....
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:09 pm

So you have finally made my point for me, too many cheap and poor squad players bought instead of buying fewer top quality players to improve the team.

As for Gerrard and Houllier see the reply I made earlier :)
What you don't get is that Houllier wasted over hundred millions and then the price we got to get rid of them wasn't even half of what we paid.


But going by your arguement you have to use the NET figure don't you ? :D

Houllier sold over £60million add to that the players that Rafa sold of Houlliers £45million =£105million +..... so Houllier actually only spent around £25million, which works out at about £4million a year. :D
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Postby Number 9 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:47 pm

Oh fuc,k another thread like this!! :D

Pro Rafa posters take the good stats and the Anti Rafas take the bad ones and then we still get nowhere AGAIN!!! :D
Bottom line is some people wont see the progress and work that has been done in Rafas time until he wins the League,others can appreciate what he has done.
Thats the way it is and always will be!

ONLY 23 more days to we actually play!! :(
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Postby Judge » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:59 pm

Number 9 wrote:Oh fuc,k another thread like this!! :D

Pro Rafa posters take the good stats and the Anti Rafas take the bad ones and then we still get nowhere AGAIN!!! :D
Bottom line is some people wont see the progress and work that has been done in Rafas time until he wins the League,others can appreciate what he has done.
Thats the way it is and always will be!

ONLY 23 more days to we actually play!! :(

btw, in a past life i was a red indian, and my name was talkin bollox

:D
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Postby mistyred » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:41 pm

Judge wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Oh fuc,k another thread like this!! :D

Pro Rafa posters take the good stats and the Anti Rafas take the bad ones and then we still get nowhere AGAIN!!! :D
Bottom line is some people wont see the progress and work that has been done in Rafas time until he wins the League,others can appreciate what he has done.
Thats the way it is and always will be!

ONLY 23 more days to we actually play!! :(

btw, in a past life i was a red indian, and my name was talkin bollox

:D

Stu yo been doin that since you first joined mate.....Ah the good old days  :D
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Postby Penguins » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:46 pm

s@int wrote:So you have finally made my point for me, too many cheap and poor squad players bought instead of buying fewer top quality players to improve the team.

As for Gerrard and Houllier see the reply I made earlier :)
What you don't get is that Houllier wasted over hundred millions and then the price we got to get rid of them wasn't even half of what we paid.


But going by your arguement you have to use the NET figure don't you ? :D

Houllier sold over £60million add to that the players that Rafa sold of Houlliers £45million =£105million +..... so Houllier actually only spent around £25million, which works out at about £4million a year. :D

No, my point is that Rafa would never had been able to afford those top quality players and still have a good enough squad!

You need to have quality in more than 11 players!
So he has had to build slowly but surely without spending much.

Yes, the net figure.

Houllier spent 140 millions(Cisse was his buy), sold for 60 millions. Then were do you come up with 45 million from Houllier players??

Cisse sold for 8
Diouf sold for 3.5
Riise sold for 4
Traore sold for 2
Baros sold for 6

No way will that add up to 45 million.
When I went through the transfers around 30 millions accounted for Houlliers players.
And no, Murphy Owen and other accademy players are not Houlliers signings!

Besides, let us look at rafa with the same specs.
Let's be modest even.

Torres worth what? 40 million at least
Alonso worth 15
Masch worth 20
Lucas worth 6
Agger worth 8 at least
Skrtel worth 8 at least
Arbeloa worth 4
Aurelio worth 3
Babel worth 11
Kuyt worth 5
Cavalieri worth 3.5
Benayoun worth 7
Pennant worth 7
Reina worth 12 at least
Leto worth 2
Voronin worth 2
Itdantje worth 2
Degen worth 2
Dossena worth 7
NGog worth 1.5

That accounts to 166 millions that the squad is worth which Rafa has bought. And i was modest in my valuation!
And that is without counting Nemeth, Pacheco and all the promising talent rafa has bought.

That means Rafa's buys has actually gained in value in general.He has bought players for 163 millions and still the players that are still at the club are worth more. And he still has sold players for 92 millions who are most his buys.
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Postby Number 9 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:47 pm

Judge wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Oh fuc,k another thread like this!! :D

Pro Rafa posters take the good stats and the Anti Rafas take the bad ones and then we still get nowhere AGAIN!!! :D
Bottom line is some people wont see the progress and work that has been done in Rafas time until he wins the League,others can appreciate what he has done.
Thats the way it is and always will be!

ONLY 23 more days to we actually play!! :(

btw, in a past life i was a red indian, and my name was talkin bollox

:D

Yours was Sucking bollo'x!! :D
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Postby Judge » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:48 pm

mistyred wrote:
Judge wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Oh fuc,k another thread like this!! :D

Pro Rafa posters take the good stats and the Anti Rafas take the bad ones and then we still get nowhere AGAIN!!! :D
Bottom line is some people wont see the progress and work that has been done in Rafas time until he wins the League,others can appreciate what he has done.
Thats the way it is and always will be!

ONLY 23 more days to we actually play!! :(

btw, in a past life i was a red indian, and my name was talkin bollox

:D

Stu yo been doin that since you first joined mate.....Ah the good old days  :D

he's not stu :D
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Postby Number 9 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:50 pm

Fecking missed that!
Call me anything or anybody but please just not that! :D
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Postby mistyred » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:54 pm

Sorry Barry it's the heat :D

Cheers Judge lol :laugh:
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