Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:11 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
I'll delete as I see fit

Whats the point of having an open forum, if Mods can delete posts they simply like or dislike.

Can't see why this thread is any more important than the others that are filled with thousands of crappy posts.

This post can now be deleted

by **Sabre** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:23 pm

I had a conversation with a mate in the coffee pub this morning. He cannot be considered a Liverpool fan, but he likes Liverpool, and tries to be updated about Liverpool on the surface, he's one of the thousands that are not fans but definitely preffer Liverpool rather than any other english team

The conversation went something like this

Friend: What's going on with Rafa?

Sabre: It seems to me he's on thin ice mate

Friend: But he had the total support and trust of the crowd, didn't he? they even put his photo in a huge frame like in Iran!

Sabre: Yes, well, that's correct

Friend: And what has happened to lose all that trust?

Sabre: Well, currently Rafa's through his first serious crisis as a manager, and people wanted to win the league badly this season.

Friend: Well, a trust that doesn't stand against the first serious crisis is not such a trust is it?

Sabre: True enough.

While I was having this conversation I was getting more angry. There are fans around here, that for some long time have expressed their doubts about Rafa, and where as I disagree with them, they explained thoroughly why they didn't like rotation, the team selections, some tactics, or some buys. So for me those posters asking Rafa to leave is a natural consequence and fair enough.

What I didn't expect is so many casualties in the lads that said all this way they trusted on Rafa. Was "In Rafa I trust" a catchy phrase and nothing else? it seems so.

Actually, it's not that I say so, Kenny Dalglish said something similar a few days back when he said those lines about trust not being needed after Istambul but now.

Rafa's eaten a lot of pride this months with all the Klinsman saga, the focus on the pitch while we talk with the German thingy. He has stayed in Liverpool instead of walking off like in Valencia for a 3 reasons: The club, the city and the supporters.

So when the next manager comes, and worry not, he will come because this is a no return situation for Rafa, I hope that people instead of talking about trust, talk about the mistakes they see on the pitch.

Bigmick for instance has received his share of stick for putting his footie opinions in which he disagreed with Rafa this last two years . And that's unfair, he's a top poster. Hope with the next manager he doesn't get that stick when he talks honestly about footie, hope he isn't told about trust and loyalty, and he's instead replied with footie arguments.

Because loyalty and trust is not something to talk about when things go well, but something to practice in times like this.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:41 pm

redtrader74 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
I'll delete as I see fit

Whats the point of having an open forum, if Mods can delete posts they simply like or dislike.

Can't see why this thread is any more important than the others that are filled with thousands of crappy posts.

This post can now be deleted

Exactly.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:48 pm

I have said I am not sure if I want Rafa to stay or go. Ask me do I still trust Rafa and I would have to say no. I believed in him and his methods, but after 4 years of patient (ok impatient ) waiting, I am still wondering will we ever mount a serious challenge in the league. I believe he can win us cups but I honestly can't say I trust him to win the title, this year, next year, or any year any more.

I have not lost that trust "in the first crisis", its just that I overlooked his failings in the league in previous years because of successful cup runs. 4 years without a challenge is a long time considering the amount of money we have spent and the fact that we now seem further away than ever. I will make my mind up at the end of the season, but trust once lost is hard to recover.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:51 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
I'll delete as I see fit

Whats the point of having an open forum, if Mods can delete posts they simply like or dislike.

Can't see why this thread is any more important than the others that are filled with thousands of crappy posts.

This post can now be deleted

Exactly.

Only reason I can see is the thread starter obviously put a lot of effort into writing his opening post, and it made a nice change to the usual "I think Rafa should go" one line thread opener.

Other than that you are right mate.

by **Kharhaz** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:02 pm

anyway club first, i know people say "well who would you rather have as manager", well the fact is at the moment i would rather not have rafa as manager and we have to deal with that first, then for me there is only one real candidate and that is mourinho, he knows how to win the league, he knows how to win the CL, he knows how to deal with players,

as for the posters slagging off the owners, i suppose you would of all been happy if rafa had left and we had no replacement lined up, yeah i thought now.

our problems on the pitch do not lay with the owners, they lay squarely with the manager

Welcome back peewee. Id like rafa to stay until the end of the season at least. At the minute id blame the players as well as the manager for our recent performances. A few players have put it down to whats going on in the background with the chairmen, for me thats rubbish, thats just looking for an easy excuse and to pass the blame onto someone else. Now, if we dont finish 4th and fail miserably in the cups then rafa should go. Because clearly by then he would have well and truly lost the dressing room. As an alternative however, id go for something new. Now before anyone says im stupid, an idiot or whatever its just an idea, how about Carra and stevie as joint player managers. They have experience of the game, they love the club, they know situations and they know what players would improve the club. The only alternative is maureen which I wouldnt like personally. I think hes arrogant and it would be a big kick in the teeth for rafa.

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:06 pm

Sabre wrote:I had a conversation with a mate in the coffee pub this morning. He cannot be considered a Liverpool fan, but he likes Liverpool, and tries to be updated about Liverpool on the surface, he's one of the thousands that are not fans but definitely preffer Liverpool rather than any other english team

The conversation went something like this

Friend: What's going on with Rafa?

Sabre: It seems to me he's on thin ice mate

Friend: But he had the total support and trust of the crowd, didn't he? they even put his photo in a huge frame like in Iran!

Sabre: Yes, well, that's correct

Friend: And what has happened to lose all that trust?

Sabre: Well, currently Rafa's through his first serious crisis as a manager, and people wanted to win the league badly this season.

Friend: Well, a trust that doesn't stand against the first serious crisis is not such a trust is it?

Sabre: True enough.

While I was having this conversation I was getting more angry. There are fans around here, that for some long time have expressed their doubts about Rafa, and where as I disagree with them, they explained thoroughly why they didn't like rotation, the team selections, some tactics, or some buys. So for me those posters asking Rafa to leave is a natural consequence and fair enough.

What I didn't expect is so many casualties in the lads that said all this way they trusted on Rafa. Was "In Rafa I trust" a catchy phrase and nothing else? it seems so.

Actually, it's not that I say so, Kenny Dalglish said something similar a few days back when he said those lines about trust not being needed after Istambul but now.

Rafa's eaten a lot of pride this months with all the Klinsman saga, the focus on the pitch while we talk with the German thingy. He has stayed in Liverpool instead of walking off like in Valencia for a 3 reasons: The club, the city and the supporters.

So when the next manager comes, and worry not, he will come because this is a no return situation for Rafa, I hope that people instead of talking about trust, talk about the mistakes they see on the pitch.

Bigmick for instance has received his share of stick for putting his footie opinions in which he disagreed with Rafa this last two years . And that's unfair, he's a top poster. Hope with the next manager he doesn't get that stick when he talks honestly about footie, hope he isn't told about trust and loyalty, and he's instead replied with footie arguments.

Because loyalty and trust is not something to talk about when things go well, but something to practice in times like this.

This just isnt any crisis though Sabre where we've had just a poor run of results and a load of freak injuries. On the footie front and IMO this was inevitable. We've seen the same efforts and methods from Rafa for a few seasons now, and it hasnt gone to plan.

Even in Houlliers last days, the "crisis" IMO wasnt as bad as this. You can only trust the manager to do so much, there comes a point when it goes beyond trust and becomes delusional.

For instance he signed Babel for 11 million pounds, alot of money. The bloke mainly features as a sub, and Rafa while also playing him out of position usually still opts for Riise or Benayoun on the left. We needed to sign a top quality winger, Rafa bought in Ryan Babel instead, who isnt even a winger and is more likely to be used as a sub.
Rafa may of gambled and hoped that Harry Kewell would of come back to form, but unfortunately for Rafa Harry is another player letting us down.

He had money to spend in the summer to bring in some quality wingers, Babel 11 and Benayoun 4.5. If he was going to use Babel so sparingly why pay a hefty sum, why not go out and spend the combined fee on players that are more than just average players, because he looks for quantity over quality.

Rafa bought Crouch as JBG said when he was considered a laughing stock in England for 7 million pounds, hits the onion bag, then next season finds himself frozen out like an ice-pop, what the feck is that all about ?

He pays 10 million for Kuyt who is simply s.hit and plays more games upfont than anyone else, bar Torres but still.

Why sign Voronin and pay his wages, I reckon the tea lady is probably a better footballer than him, and shes probably got a better haircut.

Then theres him falling out with Pako and Steve Heighway, obviously not everyone agrees with Rafa and its clear even from where I sit, the wheels are clearly coming off the Rafa bandwagon.

Believe it or not, I actually like the bloke he does come accross as a very likeable guy. But at the end of the day there is no sentiments in football, its a cut throat business and if hes not seen to be progressing then like most employees the writings on the wall.

Look at the league table now, well I havent looked at it for months TBH. Are we 7th ? Is that progress after four years with over 130 million pounds spent ?

Also one last thing, I dont think you need to tell Liverpool fans about loyalty and trust. Their very knowledgable in the main, and if this would of been Newcastle, Tottenham, Bolton, Chelsea or possibly even Arsenal Rafa would of gone by now. The fans have stuck by him, but the faith as I said cannot run into disolusion.

Rafa's eaten a lot of pride this months with all the Klinsman saga

Nothing a cool 6 million pounds wouldnt solve ?

Talking of pride he hasnt "eaten' enough for me as far as the football goes. His style isnt working for him plain and simple yet he still persists. If he'd "eaten" his pride in that aspect I'm sure many fans wouldnt be questioning their trust in him.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:17 pm

its nice that people defend him in a way, but i dont think anyone is saying they dislike rafa, but to defend his tactics and selections at times is not right, if a player has a bad game he is criticised by some of these posters, like riise for example, but the manager has a bad time and he is still defended.

i have said many times that rafa is not infallible and his job is not safe, if he had the title to back him up, or even close to the title, or even moving in the right direction then he can afford to get a bit lippy with the owners, but while he has none of these things he should have shut up, to be honest i think rafa knew he wasnt going to take us any further and looked to shift the blame.

he is a likable guy but if he keeps taking some gullible fans for a ride and doesnt start to admit his failings then i will dislike him like i do with houllier. every interview is the same after every poor performance, i would love him to come out and say he messed it up, i would love him to come out and admit that after 4 years he is still clueless about english football.

the best thing for LFC is to sever all ties now and start afresh, put a caretaker in until maureen can take over

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:20 pm

peewee wrote:its nice that people defend him in a way, but i dont think anyone is saying they dislike rafa, but to defend his tactics and selections at times is not right, if a player has a bad game he is criticised by some of these posters, like riise for example, but the manager has a bad time and he is still defended.

i have said many times that rafa is not infallible and his job is not safe, if he had the title to back him up, or even close to the title, or even moving in the right direction then he can afford to get a bit lippy with the owners, but while he has none of these things he should have shut up, to be honest i think rafa knew he wasnt going to take us any further and looked to shift the blame.

he is a likable guy but if he keeps taking some gullible fans for a ride and doesnt start to admit his failings then i will dislike him like i do with houllier. every interview is the same after every poor performance, i would love him to come out and say he messed it up, i would love him to come out and admit that after 4 years he is still clueless about english football.

the best thing for LFC is to sever all ties now and start afresh, put a caretaker in until maureen can take over

I will put you down as a "don't know" should I peewee ?

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:21 pm

s@int wrote:
peewee wrote:its nice that people defend him in a way, but i dont think anyone is saying they dislike rafa, but to defend his tactics and selections at times is not right, if a player has a bad game he is criticised by some of these posters, like riise for example, but the manager has a bad time and he is still defended.

i have said many times that rafa is not infallible and his job is not safe, if he had the title to back him up, or even close to the title, or even moving in the right direction then he can afford to get a bit lippy with the owners, but while he has none of these things he should have shut up, to be honest i think rafa knew he wasnt going to take us any further and looked to shift the blame.

he is a likable guy but if he keeps taking some gullible fans for a ride and doesnt start to admit his failings then i will dislike him like i do with houllier. every interview is the same after every poor performance, i would love him to come out and say he messed it up, i would love him to come out and admit that after 4 years he is still clueless about english football.

the best thing for LFC is to sever all ties now and start afresh, put a caretaker in until maureen can take over

I will put you down as a "don't know" should I peewee ?

yeah mate i am on the fence on this one

by **LittleHobo** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:45 pm

said when ryan babel came it was a gamble

and it looks to have backfired

rafa needed a title challenge this season and by buying babel ( a player for the future rather than the present) he made our first team weaker

by **supersub** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:02 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
I'll delete as I see fit

Whats the point of having an open forum, if Mods can delete posts they simply like or dislike.

simply cleaned a thread ....if you have a problem send a PM to me and I will deal with it..Now I am off to the game bye

by **Ciggy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:10 pm

s@int wrote:
Bammo wrote:
The_Rock wrote:Time for a change of manager
1)Rock - Mourinho
2)Pewee -
3)Heimdall - Pako or King Kenny but seriously mourinho
4)Bamaga - Hiddink

6)JBG - Mourinho
7)puroresu - Mourinho or Van Basten
8)BigMick - i think he mentioned mourinho
9)Dav -
10)Lakes -
11)Little Hobo - Mourinho
12)Sarge -
13)Penguins - King Kenny or Mark Hughes
14)club_Levis -
15)teamleader1 -
16)Rockthekop - Mourinho
17)slickrick - mourinho
18)tommycockles -
19)parchpea -
20)god_bless_john_houlding - Martin Jol
21)JohnBull -
22)jedwards -

Rafa to stay until end of his contract.
1)Lando
2)Sabre
3)burjennio
4)Igor Zidane
5)Dundalk
6)Zi-Dan Agger
7)Reg

Rafa to stay as manager for next season:
1)LFC2007
2)ruskiy playmaker
3)metalhead
4)babu
5)redtrader74
6) Bammo
7)Kazza

Uncertain
1)Saint - Mounrinho
2)Scott
3)Ciggy

Just stick it in yourself mate (as the actress said to the bishop )

EDITED FOR Kazza and Reg and myself as I did not ask to be on any list..

Updated.

by **TwelthMan** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:36 pm

whoever mentioned mark hughes needs to be fed his own nob

by **The_Rock** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:57 pm

peewee wrote:couldnt reply earlier as i was banned

i know we have our differences but well done on this post, it has taken a long time for people to realise what i have been saying all along, or at least a long time for people to speak openly about this subject without fear of being labeled a non fan, a fickle fan etc.

anyway well written and more importantly welcome to the dark side, i hope you feel better now you have gotten all that off your chest.

i could see this coming, i could see eventually people would start to feel the same way as me, of course i could have been wrong and things may have improved which is what we would all rather have rather that the feeling we need a new manager.

anyway club first, i know people say "well who would you rather have as manager", well the fact is at the moment i would rather not have rafa as manager and we have to deal with that first, then for me there is only one real candidate and that is mourinho, he knows how to win the league, he knows how to win the CL, he knows how to deal with players,

as for the posters slagging off the owners, i suppose you would of all been happy if rafa had left and we had no replacement lined up, yeah i thought now.

our problems on the pitch do not lay with the owners, they lay squarely with the manager

well come back dude..... :buttrock

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