Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:37 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Woof--I think it's a useful thing to discuss every so often and now's as good a time as any.

I agree it is useful to discuss, but I do not agree on the timing. Although it would be good to talk about something other than DIC, we have just signed a player that almost none of us have seen in person and could very well make his way into these line-ups or out of some peoples. And until the window officially closes there is always the slight chance we sell someone or bring someone in that could affect the choices. I feel that middle to end of February and September seem like the best times for these opinion polls

by **woof woof !** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:08 pm

JoeTerp wrote:who are our best XI footballers? certainly Gerrard, Carra, Reina, and Torres make the list. I think most people would have to include both Mascherano as well as Alonso in that list as well. that is 5 or 6 players that are locked down. leaving 5 or 6 more to go. Assuming a 4 at the back formation:

1 of which must be a CB partner for Agger:
Hyypia has played well, but its obvious that he has lost a step and that if Agger ever gets fit he will play ahead of him.

2 of which must be fullbacks
Its hard for me to tell out of Finnan, Arbeloa, and Aurelio or Riise which combination of the 2 is best.

then 2 or three for the rest of em:
Deciding between Yossi, Kewell, and Pennant, and then choosing between Kuyt, Babel, Crouch, Voronin, and if you want 3 of that group to play you have to choose to sit Alonso.

I think when picking the team, the Gerrard issue becomes a big deal. Because he is our best player should we automatically play him in his best suited role and as such build the team, or choose his partners based on his needs. I think that this thinking is what gets us into our relying too much on Gerrard and Torres problem. Stevie is probably the most versatile player on our team, and even when he plays out of position and you say he didn't look like himself today, he can still play those roles better than pretty much anybody else on the team can. So what would happen if we made our best XI assuming Gerrard wasn't fit, then decide who the weak link in the chain was, and replace it with our best player, turning a weakness into a strength instantly.

But I have grown fond of this new experimental lineup than I thought of yesterday, and it is based on an idea I got form BigMick's post about Lucas, as well as the assumption that Skrtel will live up to what his transfer fee says he is worth:
Reina
Skrtel Carra Agger
Mascherano
Gerrard Aurelio
Lucas
Babel Kewell

Torres

Subs: Itandje, Arbeloa, Yossi, Alonso, Riise

by **JoeTerp** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:13 pm

woof woof ! wrote:

I call it the ol' JoeTerp 3-4-2-1 Diamond formation.

by **woof woof !** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:18 pm

I call it "ignore my previous post formation"

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:24 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
woof woof ! wrote::D

I call it the ol' JoeTerp 3-4-2-1 Diamond formation.

To paraphrase Alan Hansen, "You'll never win anything with one up front"

by **JoeTerp** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:31 pm

s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
woof woof ! wrote::D

I call it the ol' JoeTerp 3-4-2-1 Diamond formation.

To paraphrase Alan Hansen, "You'll never win anything with one up front"

That's nice, because I have 3

by **Bermenstein** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:26 pm

We dont have a best 11. We're about 3 players short.

by **Red H** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:26 pm

Reina

Finnan Carragher Agger Arbeloa

Mascherano Alonso

Pennant Gerrard Babel

Torres

Swap Pennant or Babel for Kewell/Voradiin/Kuyte/Benayoun

Crouch first swap for Torres if unavailable

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Bad Bob wrote:So "play your best 11" is, IMHO, a bit of a nonsense criticism. Now, before I get blasted, let me say that that does not mean you have to accept rotation. As Big Mick has been saying for some time, you can still urge Rafa to pick a settled side and stick with it until injuries, suspensions or significant loss of form necessitate a change. That means giving Arbeloa, say, an extended run at LB or Pennant a few games on the bounce at RM and seeing how things shake out. That's an argument I can live with because it doesn't hinge on some mythical Best 11 that everyone except Rafa can apparently see.

I certainly wouldn't ever try and blast you Bob. For one thing you'd probably blast me back twice as hard and for another, you're much too nice a fella for all that.

I just believe it's quite simply a question of philosophy. To my mind, you should start out the season with the intention wherever possible of establishing a winning run, getting some momentum, some rhythm, some belief and cohesion and do as little as possible to disturb the equilebrium once you've got it.

In an absolutely ideal, utopian World which doesn't exist, I would play the same team in every single game and we'd win 4-0 every week, never pick up an injury and nobody would lose form. That never happens of course, so you are forced into making adjustments from time to time. The key is though, I would adjust only when the need is pressing, only when the loss of form and confidence is so obviously to the detrement of the team (Kuyt for the whole of this season for instance) or when an injury actually prevents a player from taking part. With Rafa of course, the opposite is the case. He only plays the same team when he is forced into it. Forced into it usually either by an exceptionally good performance (8-0 against Besiktas for instance) or by a realisation that we desperately need a result and this really isn't the time for experimental fecking around (this has happened a few times in the last three or four weeks, and I've no doubt we will field a very conventional line-up against Villa as well).

The most frustrating thing of the whole situation from my perspective is that the desire to find a settled team seems to me to be a glaringly obvious way to maximise the potential of any group of footballers. Crouch and Torres? Do they really look any worse together than Kuyt/Voronin plus A.N. Other? Wouldn't they surely form more of a partnership if they were given a run of half a dozen matches?

You're right that if you look at all the teams people have selected, there are many differences. Things go in fashion, I see most people now would put Gerrard on the right although I suspect it's more because they feel it would maximise the sum of the squads parts rather than thinking like me, that he is a better player there. But the thing is as you know, people who believe in a similar theory to myself (as in non "Rafa-stylers") don't really mind what team he picks. As long as it includes Gerrard and Torres, with preferably and almost certainly Carragher and Reina and preferably not Kuyt or Voronin, then I personally don't give a feck. Just stick with the guts of whatever team he decides to go with and we'll all be happy.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:01 pm

"Rafa-Style", changing the team, the formation and/or the positions which the players play in with the frequency and to the degree which Rafa does will never be successful in the English premier League until we get a creative second striker !

by **bigmick** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:00 pm

s@int wrote:"Rafa-Style", changing the team, the formation and/or the positions which the players play in with the frequency and to the degree which Rafa does will never be successful in the English premier League until we get a creative second striker !

Absolutely fecking quality mate, PMSL

by **common** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:56 pm

I prefer 3-5-2 formation..

Reina

Carra
Skrtel Agger

Arbeloa JAR
Alonso
Gerrard Babel

Torres Crouch

by **NJD83** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:16 pm

May seem old formation but play to our strenghts!!!

Reina
Carragher Skrtel Agger

Finnan Riise
Mash

Pennant Kewell

Gerrard

Torres

We don't have good full backs or good wingers so play wing backs, we have the best defesive mid in the world in Mash and we dont have another striker good enough to patner FT so I think this is the best formation/team we can offer at the moment!!! What do you think???

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:31 pm

NJD83 wrote:May seem old formation but play to our strenghts!!!

Reina
Carragher Skrtel Agger

Finnan Riise
Mash

Pennant Kewell

Gerrard

Torres

We don't have good full backs or good wingers so play wing backs, we have the best defesive mid in the world in Mash and we dont have another striker good enough to patner FT so I think this is the best formation/team we can offer at the moment!!! What do you think???

Too negative for me. Why use all three cb's when we have no backups?

Right now I'd go with...

Reina
Finnan,Carra,Skrtel,Aurelio
Pennant,Gerrard,Alonso,Babel
Torres,Crouch

by **NJD83** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:16 pm

Too negative for me. Why use all three cb's when we have no backups

Why is that negative, useing three center backs dosn't mean defensive football, I know what you mean about cover but buy someone else then, we have no world class full back or wingers so disolve the problem of needing four with two and play as many of our world class midfeild as possible, think Babel and Yossi will fit in better in this formation also!!!!

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