Liverpool FC Forum

by **madred** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:35 am

Some people it seems to me Dalglish never wanted this man to succeed in the first place. That post by Niall just stinks of what i would call Ian St John Syndrome. Even when he was winning things they would fail to acknowledge what he had achieved. Sounds like he was one of those people who said " well Roy got his marching orders so why didnt he"? Complete load of s**t!! Rant over.

by **Dalglish** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:45 am

Fair comment madred.

We could cover this for a while but I would hazard a guess your "Local" in terms of where you are based.

I don't want to get into a Local/Not local debate but you do seem to get a common viewpoint from fans ina nd around liverpool as oppposed to those who live out of thr area.....It's not a dig, simply an observation ...

by **madred** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:48 am

I know where you are coming from mate. We could go on and on. I still have fond memories of GH that will live with me till i die. Walk on.

by **LFC #1** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:52 am

were you saying that rubbish when we won the treble Big Niall? or when we made the 1/4 of Champions league?, I doubt it very much.

by **Dalglish** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:57 am

I met him you know (GH)

On thre Eve of the Worthington Cup Final against the mancs, he was briliant and came across as a humble yet determined guy.

I went to all the finals during his reign and had some of the best times wacthing LFC under his reign.

History will show that the changes he made at this club laid a foundation for what hopefuly Benitez wil build on .

I'm not so concerned that Benitez hasn;t gone out and bought half a dozen players, it proves that despite his failings with "Some" transfers he bought well and we have a decent sqaud that needs a fresh approcah and a new challenge...

Walk on :;):

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:55 am

as i've already stated, my appreciation for Houllier was given, even now.
what i dont buy though is when fans say (Stu says it nearly every day cos he just cant bring himself to criticise Houllier) "he nearly died for the club" etc. i'm not being insensitive etc but the fact he had the heart thingemebob should have no bearing on him as a manager. it wasnt as if he ran the 1500 metres in record time, nearly killing himself doing it, so that we could win a game. the man suffered from stress. are you's all gonna say
"we should appreciate what Graeme Souness did for this club, he nearly died trying". that has f*** all to do with anything.
please dont take this as though i'm a heartless "cudnt give a sh**" bas****.
its just that it has nothing to do with bein remembered as a good/bad manager. i think the Souness example sums the point up

by **azriahmad** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:13 am

I have said this before, Houllier is instrumental in modernising the youth academy, as he did for France at Clairfontaine which produced the likes of Henry and Anelka. He is a good administrator, as is proven, whereby he laid the good foundations especially on youth.

However, he falls very far short in the deep end of management - his man management style of conveniently blaming individuals like Ginola for France's failure to qualify for 1994 WCup and Gerrard for Liverpool's exit in the CL to Basle shows his shortcomings as a man manager; and his tactics and judgement are horrifying to say the least.

His good work will yield only after he has left because the youth system should be one of the top in the country, unless Benny ignores the players produced. His coaching and tactical playing style though, will not be missed at all.

by **supersub** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:21 am

I like the comparison of Souness to Houllier on the "they nearly died for the club".One of them is lambasted on every occassion for his betrayal to the scum despite his near death experience for the club.

by **115-1073096938** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:15 pm

as i've already stated, my appreciation for Houllier was given, even now.
what i dont buy though is when fans say (Stu says it nearly every day cos he just cant bring himself to criticise Houllier) "he nearly died for the club" etc. i'm not being insensitive etc but the fact he had the heart thingemebob should have no bearing on him as a manager. it wasnt as if he ran the 1500 metres in record time, nearly killing himself doing it, so that we could win a game. the man suffered from stress. are you's all gonna say
"we should appreciate what Graeme Souness did for this club, he nearly died trying". that has f*** all to do with anything.
please dont take this as though i'm a heartless "cudnt give a sh**" bas****.
its just that it has nothing to do with bein remembered as a good/bad manager. i think the Souness example sums the point up

Houllier came back against doctors orders to try and resume where he left off.

Which had he done that, you'd all be kissing his ****** and telling us how great he is. Well in my opinion, someone who's got the bottle to walk back into a job like this with fans as spitefull as some of you lot says something about the man.

Now do us all a favour, leave him alone.

Let him get on with his life and career as he sees fit instead of trying to slag a man who done everything he could to get us to where we belong and NEARLY succeeded.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:23 pm

stu you are purely on your defensive about Houllier la.
i wasnt slaggin him at all. i actually put things in perspective by saying he did change the club round full circle, but when he had to go, we had a right to say he had to go.
i only said this b******* about him "nearly dyin to save the club" means f*** all. Souness also went against doctors orders to attend the FA cup final against Sunderland
i think what you're tryin to prove was that he loved the club that much it hurt......BUT NO-ONE'S ARGUIN WITH THAT!!!!
i'm just sayin he wasnt good enough for what Liverpool needed, having on the other hand given us what most couldnt.
his commitment has nothin to do with his ability.

stu i really want to hear you say "Gerard Houllier's tactics were awful" come on Stu, even just for a newcomer like me. come on please la' just let go...its alright..it wont hurt

forgive the sarchasm stuey la but i was gettin a bit serious like

by **kenco** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:57 pm

G.H.did a great job at Liverpool ,and should not be forgotten for what he did for our great club. He brought many good things to Anfield,but in the last two seasons,he also made some very poor buys,which whether you like it or not ,cost him is job.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:59 pm

kenco what do you make of all the "he nearly died tryin..."
talk?
oh and does your name refer to the coffee

by **JBG** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:24 pm

I was a harsh (but I think fair) critic of Houllier last season and Stu can testify to that as the two of us had many heated debates about Houllier on this forum! :alien:

However, I admit that I was a massive fan of Houllier up until the end of 2002/03 when my faith in him began to wane. The bad run that season was a real kick in the teeth, but bizaarely I thought that in some ways (at the time) it was a natural occurance in the team's upward cycle as Houllier had 4 years of continuous success prior to that and I thought that the bad run was merely a speedbump and the team would learn from it and become stronger.

That certainly looked the case as we beat the Mancs in Cardiff and went on a great run after that and it seemed that Houllier was back on track.

However, the last 5 games or so of 2002/03 were very poor, particularly the displays against Man City and Chelsea. Those defeats were big blows and Houllier and the team seemed to panic again, and I really began to have my doubts about him after the Chelsea defeat.

I thought he deserved another chance but the poor overall form of last season confirmed that Houllier had achieved as much as he could for the club and by staying on the team were in serious danger of going backwards.

Another thing that scared me about Houllier last season was the influence he had with the board, and he seemed to be able to bend Moores and Parry around his little finger as far as transfers went. Houllier's solution to his problems was to splash out heavily on players in an effort to turn things around, and I'm sure that had Houllier remained in charge this summer he would have persuaded Parry and Moores to fork out £30m on the likes of Mexes, Barton, Sean Wright-Phillips and a few others. Houllier's transfer policy was getting dangerous and the huge amount of money spent on failures is well documented, and had he spent that kind of money and the club failed again in 2004/05, we would be in serious financial difficulties next summer.

However, I think its grossly unfair for the likes of Big Niall to pick on Houllier for the following reasons:

1. We only won 2 trophies in the reigns of Evans and Souness, and Houllier's capture of 1 FA Cup, 2 league cups and the UEFA Cup must be compared in the light of Souness' and Evans' acheivements, not Shankly, Paisley's or Daglish's achievements.

2. Alaves were not a village team. The Spanish League is the best in the world bar none and although Alaves are a small Spanish team (akin to say Charlton or Southampton...actually, they were probably closer to the likes of Bolton) they had a decent team that were competitive in Spain. They got to the UEFA Cup final and almost beat us.

3. In 2001 we beat the likes of Barcelona and Roma (who went on to be Champions of Italy that season) on the way to winning the UEFA Cup. That is not a small achievement.

4. Heskey is much derided, but people are forgetting what a big talent he was at Leicester. Man UTD and Arsenal were also interested in Heskey and Houllier's signing of him at the time was seen as a coup. Much of the blame for Heskey's poor form and underachievement must lie with Emile Heskey.

5. Houllier (and Phil Thompson) brought us to the QF of the CL in our first year in that tournament.

Houllier's abilities are limited and he depends a lot on his own hard work and effort, and the decision to fire him was correct, but we cannot deny that for 3 years, he did fantastically well.

by **LFC #1** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:31 pm

top post JBG, i agree with everything you have said, Houllier di a great job, but couldn't tkae us any further and the decison to sack him was the correct one as you said.

But th last 2 years shouldn't take way from the job he did and where he got us too, there is no doubt Houllier is a good manager, but unfortunately he couldn't tkae us further due to some poor signings and tactical ineptness, but also some bad luck had it's part to play with injuries and players underforming.

by **stmichael** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:05 pm

This isn't about whether it was right or wrong to allow GH to go. I was ready to see a change, but that didn't stop the sadness at his leaving. And if there are fans out there who didn't feel sadness both for his departure, and also for him, so obviously devastated by this, then we really must be a heartless bunch.

So time to put aside the ridiculously cruel press he had to suffer through the year, and remember what he did do for this club, and focus on what a lucky man Benitez is, taking over a solid club both on and off the field.

The cups speak for themselves. And ultimately, whatever people say, those go down in history, it's them that are on the official records, and won't be forgotten. And GH won more in his time here than the rest of the Premiership managers, bar the obvious two, put together. With the cups came many happy memories for the fans, especially those who went to the games. We had 5 trips to Cardiff, as well as some wonderful nights in Europe home and away.

Then there are some memorable games to recall in the league. Just to mention a few - Four wins in a row at Goodison, a great feat that made Reds everywhere happy, still for me, the derby games are the ones that mean the most, they are the ones closest to my heart. Then remember those words 'we will beat Manchester United one day, I promise you that'. We beat them 7 times of the last 10 games under Houllier's reign, including the incredible 3 away wins, 2 in Cardiff including a wonderful League Cup Final victory, as well as the memorable 3-1 'Riise Rocket' game with the GH mosaic. Then there was the away win at Chelsea FINALLY ending the jinx, and in the season when it was least likely to happen, after Chelsea had spent over a hundred million in just a few weeks that summer.

And probably the most poignant moments of his time here was of course when he was taken so seriously ill in October 2001.

By the end of his reign he had to go but some of the slagging off of the guy on here from the likes of big niall is unacceptable.

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