Liverpool FC Forum

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:47 am

On Saturday night a name rang around the Mastella Stadium in Valencia for the first time since May 2004. That name belonged to Rafa Benitez as the home fans sang in union "Come back Rafa, come back Rafa".

It says everything about the esteem in which the Liverpool manager is still held in Valencia that more than three years after he departed the La Liga side he remains the man the fans would love to see running their club.

With a pair of league championships and a UEFA Cup won during his stint at the Mastella we shouldn't be surprised that Benitez is still revered there.

Breaking the Real Madrid/Barcelona duoploy marks him out as an iconic figure in the Mediterranean city and seeing as the La Liga title has eluded Valencia ever since Benitez's departure it was always likely that absence would make the heart grow fonder.

In England, meanwhile, the very same Rafa Benitez is finding his ability to turn Liverpool into genuine title challengers questioned and, on occasion, his methods ridiculed whenever results go against his side and sometimes even when they don't.

The criticism of Benitez comes at a time when Liverpool are unbeaten in the league and lie just six points off first place. I repeat, when Liverpool are unbeaten in the league and just six points off first place.

The stick with which the Liverpool manager is being beaten most often is rotation. Apparently, if you listen to his critics, teams which rotate do not win the big prizes.

Well, it certainly worked in Spain so rotation cannot be dismissed as a failure all that easily.

"Ah," say the critics, "that's all well and good but football in England is different to Spain and it'll never work here".

The case for the defence could easily centre on the fact that Benitez has already guided Liverpool to domestic success in the FA Cup (not to mention that continental triviality that is the Champions League).

It might well pain him to do so, but in this case Benitez could quite easily point to Manchester United's Premiership triumph last season.

In the 2006/07 season, Sir Alex Ferguson used a total of 23 players en route to the title. At Anfield, Benitez used six more.

Significantly, five of those selected by Benitez only featured in Liverpool's last three games of the season when the focus had shifted from domestic to continental pursuits with key first team players making way for youngsters as the Champions League final loomed.

So, for the most part of the season, Benitez and Ferguson utilised squads of an almost idenitical size.

When it comes down to rotation, the two managers both made constant changes to their sides throughout the season and looked on track to record an almost identical number of changes until Liverpool secured their place in the following season's Champions League and Benitez began to make more and more changes in a bid to assess the quality of his younger squad players and the club's priority shifted to that meeting with Milan.

So, again, both Benitez and Ferguson used rotation. The difference? United won the title and Liverpool didn't.

This season, the criticism of Benitez's methods has grown more and more ridiculous with every passing week. So much so that their are now people far less qualified who feel they have the right to tell the Liverpool manager what his team should be.

Sensationalism is masquerading as analysis and it has got to stop. By all means question Rafa Benitez but it has to be done with perspective.

Trophies aren't handed out in October and we will all only know if the Reds boss' system will pay dividends come next May.

But if you have doubts about whether Benitez's methods should be accepted then consider the words of another of Valencia's favourite sons, centre forward David Villa.

In a recent interview, Villa was asked how Valencia had managed to be beaten by Chelsea in last season's Champions League quarter finals despite having gone 2-1 up on aggregate at home.

His answer was revealing: "It is very simple. We had a very small squad last season so the manager (Quique Sanchez Florez) could not rotate as much as he would have liked.

"By the end of the season we had played a lot of games, too many games, and we were tired and carrying injuries and when Chelsea came back we had nothing left to give."

It is this kind of endemic exhaustion that Benitez is trying to avoid at Anfield.

Rotation is new to the English game and in a country as insular and naturally conservative as this one it was always going to be viewed with suspicion.

But it is all too easy to blame all a club's ills on a selection process when results go against it. When Liverpool were beaten by Marseilles last week the usual suspects again argued that the defeat was caused by rotation.

This was despite the fact that physically the Liverpool players were at their highest level for several weeks. They were fresh and the occasional rests they had been given were the reason for this.

The problem was, their physical attributes were fatally undermined by a lack of confidence which meant their technical and tactical skills simply did not function.

It was a bad, bad performance but to lay the blame for it at the door of rotation is lazy in the extreme.

Just three seasons ago, the very same critics claimed that every single goal Liverpool conceded from a set piece was caused by this new fangled zonal marking system that Benitez had brought with him from Valencia.

Now, no-one even talks about it. The reason why? Liverpool hardly ever concede a goal from a set piece anymore while other teams which use more traditional man-to-man marking systems continue to concede them on a much more regular basis.

So the message is simple - support the manager and support his methods. Let the critics have their say but never lose sight of the fact that we have one of the most tactically astute coaches in European football who has a record of success that few can get near and most envy.

Oh, and his Liverpool team is still unbeaten in the Premiership as autumn kicks in.

Those fans at the Mastella know all too well that Benitez is a special manager - that's why they still sing his name - so let him get on with the job in hand at Anfield and let's see where we end up in May.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG157269071010-1010.htm

As ever, a well balanced well thought out piece from the best footy man at the echo these days.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:56 am

BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:59 am

LittleHobo wrote:we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Well then everything else in the article is to be dismissed. [/sarcasm]

I have edited it.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:01 am

i personally believe in the season that many said we would challenge being 6 points behind after 8 games is pretty poor

add to that 3 terrible league performances where we looked disjointed, not a team and lacking ideas, its a pretty bad start really (if it was his first season then fair enough, but this is meant to be our season where we give it a good go)

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:03 am

LittleHobo wrote:BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Arsenals run will not continue mate.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:05 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Arsenals run will not continue mate.

yes but man utd will only improve from here

we must match them now until the the end of the season

thats a big ask

now if we had performed vs birmingham, portsmouth and spurs we may have had a decent headstart, took the chance to capitalize on man utds poor start

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:08 am

LittleHobo wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Arsenals run will not continue mate.

yes but man utd will only improve from here

we must match them now until the the end of the season

thats a big ask

Win the game in hand and its one point, and we play them twice.

If we cant match them, or in fact better it then we dont deserve to win the league.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:14 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Arsenals run will not continue mate.

yes but man utd will only improve from here

we must match them now until the the end of the season

thats a big ask

Win the game in hand and its one point, and we play them twice.

If we cant match them, or in fact better it then we dont deserve to win the league.

my point is man utd have been awful so far and are ahead of us

we in some peoples minds have had a good start

yet man utd who have been awful are ahead of us (who some class 6 points behind top as a good start)

thats worrying

we should have taken the chance, at least won 2 of those games vs brum, ports and spuds and been a good amount of points ahead of man utd.......(who have started poorly)

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:22 am

LittleHobo wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:BIG ERROR IN THAT REPORT

we aint 4 points off first place

we are 6

and after 8 games that is bad

Arsenals run will not continue mate.

yes but man utd will only improve from here

we must match them now until the the end of the season

thats a big ask

Win the game in hand and its one point, and we play them twice.

If we cant match them, or in fact better it then we dont deserve to win the league.

my point is man utd have been awful so far and are ahead of us

we in some peoples minds have had a good start

yet man utd who have been awful are ahead of us (who some class 6 points behind top as a good start)

thats worrying

we should have taken the chance, at least won 2 of those games vs brum, ports and spuds and been a good amount of points ahead of man utd.......(who have started poorly)

Fair points.

1 point is not the most un summountable number however.

by **red37** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:01 pm

Good article that. I agree, Barratt deserves to be on his pedestal at the Echo. Keep Prentice away from it.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm

Stats can be made to mean pretty much anything you want.

For example where he says "In the 2006/07 season, Sir Alex Ferguson used a total of 23 players en route to the title. At Anfield, Benitez used six more.

Significantly, five of those selected by Benitez only featured in Liverpool's last three games of the season when the focus had shifted from domestic to continental pursuits with key first team players making way for youngsters as the Champions League final loomed"

What it does not say is how these extra players where used. Did Fergusson use 23 different players but never changed more than 2 between 2 games or did he make 4 or 5 changes to his team.

I believe rotatation is the right way, but it has to be the right rotation..

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:33 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Stats can be made to mean pretty much anything you want.

For example where he says "In the 2006/07 season, Sir Alex Ferguson used a total of 23 players en route to the title. At Anfield, Benitez used six more.

Significantly, five of those selected by Benitez only featured in Liverpool's last three games of the season when the focus had shifted from domestic to continental pursuits with key first team players making way for youngsters as the Champions League final loomed"

What it does not say is how these extra players where used. Did Fergusson use 23 different players but never changed more than 2 between 2 games or did he make 4 or 5 changes to his team.

I believe rotatation is the right way, but it has to be the right rotation..

True enough.

If I have some time later I might just have a look at how Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea approach cup competitions. Clearly, Benitez likes to field significantly different teams in the cups than he does in the league and perhaps that leads to continuity problems when the fixtures come thick and fast in more than one competition. Do Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho/Grant maintain more continuity across competitions? I'll let you know (unless someone beats me to it! :help

).

by **red37** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:36 pm

All well and good when the two squads in question do not compare ability wise. Rotate ad finitum. If you are swapping cack for likewise, it'll make no difference at all.

by **lakes10** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:36 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Stats can be made to mean pretty much anything you want.

For example where he says "In the 2006/07 season, Sir Alex Ferguson used a total of 23 players en route to the title. At Anfield, Benitez used six more.

Significantly, five of those selected by Benitez only featured in Liverpool's last three games of the season when the focus had shifted from domestic to continental pursuits with key first team players making way for youngsters as the Champions League final loomed"

What it does not say is how these extra players where used. Did Fergusson use 23 different players but never changed more than 2 between 2 games or did he make 4 or 5 changes to his team.

I believe rotatation is the right way, but it has to be the right rotation..

Heres a stat for you.

we have not won the Premier League, we last won the old one in 1990.

by **Smeg** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:38 pm

I haven't read the thread.

Or the article. I will in a minute, but I have to laugh at the title.

That stinks of "happy clappy". Rafa is beyond critisism and can't get anything wrong. Anything he does get wrong shouldn't be pointed out and should be papered over. I'm sorry, NO! It shouldn't. His mistakes should be highlighted in the hope he'll learn from them.

He's currently failing to do this. He's still wasting money on players we don't need, he's also wasting time by not strengthening the FIRST TEAM! Which is what we need. We needed three first team players last summer, he signed one. In Torres. He's been doing it every year and untill he goes out and gets class players who'll walk into the first 11 we will not improve beyond 3rd or 4th place. Thats the reality.

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