Liverpool FC Forum

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:56 am

destro wrote:
heimdall wrote:
peterc1992 wrote:
Liverpool4Life wrote:Rafa isnt that bad. But he's not that good either. So maybe its time for him to go. I dont know.

u serious,hes not good???

the best tactical manager in the league

What the f are you basing that on, do you seriously think he is better than Ferguson,Wenger and Mourinio. If you do I'd like to know what you are basing this on. It seems to me that Rafa has no ability in adapting within a game, if everything goes to his original plan then great otherwise we are screwed, this is why we so seldom come back to win a game if the opposition score first.
Look don't get me wrong he's not an awful manager just not good enough to get us the league and that is all I care about, sure winning some cups is nice but it is the very least we can expect, it is the league we should be aiming for and I really can't see Rafa getting it for us.
My other problem is that I never feel excited or confident when the Reds play these days. Compare our play to Chelsea, ManU or Arsenal and honestly tell me we play more attractive and/or better tactical football.
Bottom line I love this club and I want the league as do DIC and hopefully they will see that that isn't going to happen without a major overhaul, maybe Rafa just needs a kick up the himself but more probably we need someone who understands the English game better.

So the tactical change at half time in the champions league with didi was luck ? as was winning it. how long did it take fergie ? And the league, it was 1992 by the time he won it, where was his tactical genius in the previous 7 years ? And without the money maureen would still be without a trophy at chelsea.Yes he may of won the league and cup with porto but its hardly like...oooh i dont know breaking the stranglehold of barca and real in spain is it ( more luck ).

Do better tactical managers tell their players to fall over at the slightest touch is that what seperates them from the rest of the managers ?

So he played dudek and crouch instead of reina and bellamy...get over it, that doesnt make him any less of a manager than fergie or maureen. Had we won against arsenal would he be a tactical genius.

Dont get me wrong ferguson is a great manager, but tactically better than rafa why ? beacause his team can come from a goal down ? That has just as much to do with a winning mentality within the players and being able to call on better players than we currently have on the bench. It doesnt make him tactically more astute to say " its not working with fletcher get giggs on or ronaldo ".

We all want to see LIVERPOOL win the league and i have no doubt that rafa is the man to lead us to it. Hopefully when the takeover is complete he will be able to improve the current squad and have the luxury of match winners on the bench aswell as on the pitch, i cant see him going silly and paying over the odds like chelsea do but he wont have to settle for second choice players or stop gaps

The tactical change at half time in istanbul was because Finnan had picked up an injury so Hamann had to come on. He should have been on from the start instead of Kewell, it was a tactical mistake by Rafa that night.

Also Wenger won the league in his second season, Mourinho in his first with mostly players he inherited.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:59 am

Our record against Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal is shocking. Why people are banking on home wins v these sides I dont know as our record suggests we will not beat them.

The long ball football is a disgrace. Its huff and puff football hoping a lucky break will happen. To win the title we need 2 new full backs. Lucas Neil is not the answer!!!

Garcia is not good enough. Yes he will pop up with a great goal but that isnt enough. He is wasteful. Pennant needs to improve or he can go. Gonzales I hope will come good and am prepared to give him time. Up front we need 1 world class striker.

I think Rafa is tactically good when it comes to competing against a side which is a lot better than us. i.e. stop them playing.

However when it comes to sending out a side to win against a top top team we havent really done so. The Juve game at Anfield is probably the one game where we did try to win the game and was successful.

If u watch Mourinho for instance, in many games his side is struggling and he makes the right changes at the right time. He did it at the Nou Camp this season, Everton away, Arsenal at Home, Man Utd away. It can be argued he has the players to do this but its not as easy as that.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:13 pm

puroresu wrote:Gerrard, Alonso, Pennant, Garcia. Again some very talented players in that midfield but other than pennant no real pace in that midfield.

I take your point about pace throughout the side, but in the Midfield Gerrard has pace.
One thing that i have noticed since the Watford game at home (when Rafa stated before it, that Stevie had to pick the right moments to break forward) is that Gerrard is sitting too deep for long periods of games, and allowing Alonso to get beyond him.
He has almost taken what Rafa said too literally, and is sitting in front of the back four and picking the ball up far too deep.
Alonso is far better at doing that, as his distribution and reading of the game is better.
And Steven's best attributes with his bursts forward, direct running, pace and shooting power and accuracy are being nullified by himself.
He really is struggling to know when to get forward and when to hold his position, and being over cautious imo.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:22 pm

Anyone who at the game will admit that losing was hard to swallow because we were the better team over the 90 mins. We fell foul of some crucial defensive mistakes and not being clinical enough up front.

Without Dudeks howler for the 3rd goal I was confident we'd get the equaliser and force a replay, for most of the second half we absolutely battered them.

Lets face facts Dudek is cr@p, in my opinion it is him who should be on loan. The less we see of him from now on the better.

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:25 pm

Big Niall wrote:I don't think Rafa is one of the best tactical managers around as stated above, I don't even think he knows who his best 11 is which is a disgrace after 3 years. Dudek was terrible.

We have only beaten Arsenal twice in 18 games, FACT.
We have LOST every game this season against Manu,Chelsea,Arsenal FACT.

The above shows we are nowhere near good enough to win the league. WE have at least 6 players who are not good enough to win a league and all we seem to have creativity wise is long balls. Watch Arsenal week in/week out and you will see the football they play is so much better.

Feeling really down as I don't think we have progressed at all this season.

Agree with this post completely. One thing that came throught to me from this game is that after winning it last year Benitez wasn't bothered about it this year.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:49 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
puroresu wrote:Gerrard, Alonso, Pennant, Garcia. Again some very talented players in that midfield but other than pennant no real pace in that midfield.

I take your point about pace throughout the side, but in the Midfield Gerrard has pace.
One thing that i have noticed since the Watford game at home (when Rafa stated before it, that Stevie had to pick the right moments to break forward) is that Gerrard is sitting too deep for long periods of games, and allowing Alonso to get beyond him.
He has almost taken what Rafa said too literally, and is sitting in front of the back four and picking the ball up far too deep.
Alonso is far better at doing that, as his distribution and reading of the game is better.
And Steven's best attributes with his bursts forward, direct running, pace and shooting power and accuracy are being nullified by himself.
He really is struggling to know when to get forward and when to hold his position, and being over cautious imo.

Yes Gerrard does have pace. His quick burst of pace is a fantastic and agree with you, he does sit too deep at times.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:53 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Anyone who at the game will admit that losing was hard to swallow because we were the better team over the 90 mins. We fell foul of some crucial defensive mistakes and not being clinical enough up front.

Without Dudeks howler for the 3rd goal I was confident we'd get the equaliser and force a replay, for most of the second half we absolutely battered them.

Lets face facts Dudek is cr@p, in my opinion it is him who should be on loan. The less we see of him from now on the better.

Do u think we were the better side. I think Arsenal when they went forward always looked more dangerous and more capable of scoring.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:34 pm

puroresu wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Anyone who at the game will admit that losing was hard to swallow because we were the better team over the 90 mins. We fell foul of some crucial defensive mistakes and not being clinical enough up front.

Without Dudeks howler for the 3rd goal I was confident we'd get the equaliser and force a replay, for most of the second half we absolutely battered them.

Lets face facts Dudek is cr@p, in my opinion it is him who should be on loan. The less we see of him from now on the better.

Do u think we were the better side. I think Arsenal when they went forward always looked more dangerous and more capable of scoring.

I do think we were the better side. The difference was Arsenal converting nearly all their chances and us wasting ours.

Alonso was unlucky with the volley and the penelty.
Kuyt should of got two.
Dudek should never of played.

One thing that did annoy me though was how ineffective Pennant was first half then second half he was delivering quality from very start?

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:38 pm

Actually I changed my mind what REALLY pissed me off was the little scrote who decided to smash my passenger window in an attempt to steal my stuff while I was at the game. Unlucky for him I know the area and also know not to leave any valuables. :angry:

by **Effes** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:12 pm

I know I shouldn't mention this on an LFC thread but apparently Everton are offering free tickets for the first 1000 kids accompanied by an adult v Reading. In the Echo tonight

:laugh:

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:24 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
puroresu wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Anyone who at the game will admit that losing was hard to swallow because we were the better team over the 90 mins. We fell foul of some crucial defensive mistakes and not being clinical enough up front.

Without Dudeks howler for the 3rd goal I was confident we'd get the equaliser and force a replay, for most of the second half we absolutely battered them.

Lets face facts Dudek is cr@p, in my opinion it is him who should be on loan. The less we see of him from now on the better.

Do u think we were the better side. I think Arsenal when they went forward always looked more dangerous and more capable of scoring.

I do think we were the better side. The difference was Arsenal converting nearly all their chances and us wasting ours.

Alonso was unlucky with the volley and the penelty.
Kuyt should of got two.
Dudek should never of played.

One thing that did annoy me though was how ineffective Pennant was first half then second half he was delivering quality from very start?

I don't think we were the better side. We only had a couple of shot's on target for the whole game even though we had 70% of the ball. Arsenal got their tactics spot on and instead of changing something and bringing Bellamy on (not saying it would have worked but it would have been something) we stuck with Crouch and our play was all too predictable.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:54 pm

Winning 2 out of 18 against them PROVES that we are as good as (never mind better than) Arsenal.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:03 pm

Big Niall wrote:Winning 2 out of 18 against them PROVES that we are as good as (never mind better than) Arsenal.

The sentence doesn't make sense. Your starting to sound like old smeg head

by **destro** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:35 pm

Big Niall wrote:
destro wrote:
heimdall wrote:
peterc1992 wrote:
Liverpool4Life wrote:Rafa isnt that bad. But he's not that good either. So maybe its time for him to go. I dont know.

u serious,hes not good???

the best tactical manager in the league

What the f are you basing that on, do you seriously think he is better than Ferguson,Wenger and Mourinio. If you do I'd like to know what you are basing this on. It seems to me that Rafa has no ability in adapting within a game, if everything goes to his original plan then great otherwise we are screwed, this is why we so seldom come back to win a game if the opposition score first.
Look don't get me wrong he's not an awful manager just not good enough to get us the league and that is all I care about, sure winning some cups is nice but it is the very least we can expect, it is the league we should be aiming for and I really can't see Rafa getting it for us.
My other problem is that I never feel excited or confident when the Reds play these days. Compare our play to Chelsea, ManU or Arsenal and honestly tell me we play more attractive and/or better tactical football.
Bottom line I love this club and I want the league as do DIC and hopefully they will see that that isn't going to happen without a major overhaul, maybe Rafa just needs a kick up the himself but more probably we need someone who understands the English game better.

So the tactical change at half time in the champions league with didi was luck ? as was winning it. how long did it take fergie ? And the league, it was 1992 by the time he won it, where was his tactical genius in the previous 7 years ? And without the money maureen would still be without a trophy at chelsea.Yes he may of won the league and cup with porto but its hardly like...oooh i dont know breaking the stranglehold of barca and real in spain is it ( more luck ).

Do better tactical managers tell their players to fall over at the slightest touch is that what seperates them from the rest of the managers ?

So he played dudek and crouch instead of reina and bellamy...get over it, that doesnt make him any less of a manager than fergie or maureen. Had we won against arsenal would he be a tactical genius.

Dont get me wrong ferguson is a great manager, but tactically better than rafa why ? beacause his team can come from a goal down ? That has just as much to do with a winning mentality within the players and being able to call on better players than we currently have on the bench. It doesnt make him tactically more astute to say " its not working with fletcher get giggs on or ronaldo ".

We all want to see LIVERPOOL win the league and i have no doubt that rafa is the man to lead us to it. Hopefully when the takeover is complete he will be able to improve the current squad and have the luxury of match winners on the bench aswell as on the pitch, i cant see him going silly and paying over the odds like chelsea do but he wont have to settle for second choice players or stop gaps

The tactical change at half time in istanbul was because Finnan had picked up an injury so Hamann had to come on. He should have been on from the start instead of Kewell, it was a tactical mistake by Rafa that night.

Also Wenger won the league in his second season, Mourinho in his first with mostly players he inherited.

Biscan was on the bench that night ? was it not tactical also that kaka was murdering us in midfield. forced or not the change he made wasnt the only one he could of made.

Maureen tightened the deffence of chelsea and added to the attack with his own buys ( bought with his endless budget ) both of which took them that extra couple of steps towards the title

Whos to say that with more money available rafa wouldnt of bought us the players who could of took us that one step further ?

And as for wenger he had one of the best deffences already inplace then added viera,overmaars petit and anelka

by **RedBlood** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:20 am

i cant beleive how people over react to defeat
i was gutted on sat still am but we aint shi,t and we aint 3years behind arsenal check the table.

ofcourse we need top players like ronaldo henry etc to unlock defences an win games but they cost big money whitch rafa hasnt had, but hopefully an probally will have soon so stop over reacting and chill

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