Liverpool FC Forum

by **Well Red** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:01 pm

After watching the 'Pool be dumped out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle I don't want to pick anyone to blame, simply because we were shown up by a team which I have to say (however much it pains me to admit it) are about 3 years ahead of us at the moment in how they play their football. Arsenal were fast and clinical, and their positioning and awareness when counter attacking our goal was scary to watch.

Everytime they tore away gaping holes suddenly appeared in our defence and you got the feeling, as Henry and Van Persie and Gilberto suddenly appeared in our box out of nowhere, that they were going to score. I may well just speak for myself here, but everytime we got into the Arsenal half I just didn't get the feeling we were going to have a shot on goal, let alone score.

Peter Crouch wasn't fast enough to cause the Arsenal defenders any problems at all and I'm getting sick of his lack of an aerial threat. Everytime we get into an attacking position the ball is knocked out wide for one of the wide men to cross in and they're all aimed for Crouchie who, let's face it, is one of our worst headerers of the ball. If Garcia had his height and got his service, we'd have won against Arsenal and against Blackburn, and more convincingly against Spurs. I'm sure of it.

Predictable crosses and long balls up to Crouch just are not working and don't suit Liverpool's style of play. There's such an air of hit and hope about every ball we float into the box. Arsenal in contrast whip the ball in from all angles, pinging fast, low crosses right into the heart of penalty areas. The huge gulf between the teams can be summed up thus: we build up an attack for 20 minutes without a shot on target, then they break away with 3 quick passes and suddenly Henry's through one on one with our keeper and its 1-0. At the moment Newcastle's £15million valuation of Peter Crouch looks like a really tempting one to accept.

I could go on but my heart breaks as I write this. We will never win the league playing the way we do until we change our tactics so that we can break teams down. If we can't adapt to the fast paced quick passing game which the likes of Arsenal play then we need a player like Ronaldo (much as I loathe him) or Rooney who is actually going to run at defenders and test them. We had far too many players lurking around outside Arsenals area some 25 yards out content to just pass the buck (pardon me, 'ball') to each other in the hope that Arsenal would fall out of position - which clearly wasn't going to happen.

Finally, there has to be a fall guy. Dudek has to go, simple as that. He's not good enough for a team like Liverpool - I know he's considered a legend because of what he did against AC Milan and the wonder double-save he pulled off, however he's cost us the game tonight. He had 4 saves to make all game and let three goals in - the last two of which he should definately have saved. Rosicky's second bobbled past him and Henry's scuffed shot just rolled calmly under him á-la-Westerveld. The only save he did make was a parry from a weak Van Persie shot which he turned round the post, unnecessarily giving a corner away after a long spell of Liverpool possession. It is time to move on, Instanbul was two years ago...

I conclude by stressing that this should not be taken as an attack on Rafa. The guy's a genius, and of course knows far more about the working of football than possibly this whole forum community put together. I have faith he'll turn things around - but in order to do so it's painfully clear that a change in tactics is going to be necessary. That, and some very careful attacking signings.

by **liverpool009** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:11 pm

Well Red wrote:After watching the 'Pool be dumped out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle I don't want to pick anyone to blame, simply because we were shown up by a team which I have to say (however much it pains me to admit it) are about 3 years ahead of us at the moment in how they play their football. Arsenal were fast and clinical, and their positioning and awareness when counter attacking our goal was scary to watch.

Everytime they tore away gaping holes suddenly appeared in our defence and you got the feeling, as Henry and Van Persie and Gilberto suddenly appeared in our box out of nowhere, that they were going to score. I may well just speak for myself here, but everytime we got into the Arsenal half I just didn't get the feeling we were going to have a shot on goal, let alone score.

Peter Crouch wasn't fast enough to cause the Arsenal defenders any problems at all and I'm getting sick of his lack of an aerial threat. Everytime we get into an attacking position the ball is knocked out wide for one of the wide men to cross in and they're all aimed for Crouchie who, let's face it, is one of our worst headerers of the ball. If Garcia had his height and got his service, we'd have won against Arsenal and against Blackburn, and more convincingly against Spurs. I'm sure of it.

Predictable crosses and long balls up to Crouch just are not working and don't suit Liverpool's style of play. There's such an air of hit and hope about every ball we float into the box. Arsenal in contrast whip the ball in from all angles, pinging fast, low crosses right into the heart of penalty areas. The huge gulf between the teams can be summed up thus: we build up an attack for 20 minutes without a shot on target, then they break away with 3 quick passes and suddenly Henry's through one on one with our keeper and its 1-0. At the moment Newcastle's £15million valuation of Peter Crouch looks like a really tempting one to accept.

I could go on but my heart breaks as I write this. We will never win the league playing the way we do until we change our tactics so that we can break teams down. If we can't adapt to the fast paced quick passing game which the likes of Arsenal play then we need a player like Ronaldo (much as I loathe him) or Rooney who is actually going to run at defenders and test them. We had far too many players lurking around outside Arsenals area some 25 yards out content to just pass the buck (pardon me, 'ball') to each other in the hope that Arsenal would fall out of position - which clearly wasn't going to happen.

Finally, there has to be a fall guy. Dudek has to go, simple as that. He's not good enough for a team like Liverpool - I know he's considered a legend because of what he did against AC Milan and the wonder double-save he pulled off, however he's cost us the game tonight. He had 4 saves to make all game and let three goals in - the last two of which he should definately have saved. Rosicky's second bobbled past him and Henry's scuffed shot just rolled calmly under him á-la-Westerveld. The only save he did make was a parry from a weak Van Persie shot which he turned round the post, unnecessarily giving a corner away after a long spell of Liverpool possession. It is time to move on, Instanbul was two years ago...

I conclude by stressing that this should not be taken as an attack on Rafa. The guy's a genius, and of course knows far more about the working of football than possibly this whole forum community put together. I have faith he'll turn things around - but in order to do so it's painfully clear that a change in tactics is going to be necessary. That, and some very careful attacking signings.

why does he play Dudek why does he change things around when things r just going good for us den he puts on Dudek and Crouch when Bellamy plays we play far better and this passing back all the time and kicking it up the pitch when u could pass it about and get near the net but here Arsenal where better in the frist half but liverpool where better in the 2nd

by **83-1165214211** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:11 pm

I don't agree with alot of what you said, IE the individual little points but in principle (on the whole if you like) I do agree.

However, you will undoubtedly get slaughtered and castrated for daring to question the wonderful and faultless Benitez, the "different option" Crouch, "hero" Dudek, "Scores important goals" Luis Garcia, "the was :censored:

but is now the best player ever because i don't know my :censored:

from my elbow, fans favourate" Carragher and whoever else.

You need to have faith, In Rafa we trust because he's never wrong...

We're still the best team and we were unlucky. There goalkeeper had a blinder, had we had Sissy we'd have won. If we'd done this that blah blah blah we'd have... what the :censored:

.

The better team won end of.

by **weringo** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:10 pm

Dudek could and should have saved all 3 of those goals. Why we have Carson on loan when we dont have an adequate backup for Reina is beyond me. Crouch has been dreadful the last few games as well, scored one goal but missed about 10 other clear cut oppurtunities which even Im sure I could have buried one. There must have been something wrong with Bellamy as he could have clearly turned the game if he had come on at 50-60 minutes, the team lacks pace when he is not playing and we find ourselves playing all our football infront of the opposing back 4 and never behind it.

by **kop11** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:11 pm

Peter Crouch wasn't fast enough to cause the Arsenal defenders any problems at all and I'm getting sick of his lack of an aerial threat. Everytime we get into an attacking position the ball is knocked out wide for one of the wide men to cross in and they're all aimed for Crouchie who, let's face it, is one of our worst headerers of the ball.

totlay agree i have said this for about a year now! crouch can not head a ball!!! but ohthers canot accept it!

good point well red

by **peterc1992** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:12 pm

there not 3 years ahead of us,we were just unlucky today,we had the possesion and we wouls have got the second goal if and fair play to arsenal didnt get the third,

i agree that crouchie wasnt fast enough and if we stuck bellamy on at half time we would have ran the arsenal defence around the place with kuyt work and bellamy speed,i blame dudek on the spot,he sud have got the second and the third and u cant blame any keeper for th first,reina is better,very unlucky tonight

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:13 pm

One defeat and its all gone Pete Tong ?

Stu lad, you will never stop talking sh.ite will yer lad ?

by **peterc1992** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:One defeat and its all gone Pete Tong ?

Stu lad, you will never stop talking sh.ite will yer lad ?

pete tong?

by **Pedro O'Maradona** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:23 pm

we had all the possession, they defended deep and we cudnt break them down, we dont have a finisher, crouch isnt one and kuyt isnt either, we have no plan b, Crouch shouldnt have played especially against senderos whose pace is bad, Im presuming bellamy was injured but I cant understand why fowler wont get a run he is the kind of player that might have broken down the arsenal defence today....Rafa you got it badly wrong today, in my humble opinion.....

by **weringo** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:34 pm

Pedro O'Maradona wrote:we had all the possession, they defended deep and we cudnt break them down, we dont have a finisher, crouch isnt one and kuyt isnt either, we have no plan b, Crouch shouldnt have played especially against senderos whose pace is bad, Im presuming bellamy was injured but I cant understand why fowler wont get a run he is the kind of player that might have broken down the arsenal defence today....Rafa you got it badly wrong today, in my humble opinion.....

Kuyt is a good finisher, he isnt excellent but is definately good enough to justify a striker position in the starting lineup of LFC. The problem is when he plays with Crouch, the ball is more often than not aimed at crouch, especially with crosses which is worrying because Crouch has a strange problem with moving his neck when heading the ball, he just lets the ball bounce of his head. Kuyt rarely finds himself in a scoring position because he usually has to track back to give our attack a start.

by **HOMER** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:38 pm

agree with your comments pedro, also you need 2 kinds of strikers :-
1 with skill and can unlock defences
1 with pace to stretch defences and get behind them

we have neither:-arsenal have them, manure have them chavski have them.

kuyt works hard but is never going to be a big match winner. same with crouch-he's got a bog roll head - no power in the headers

by **kop11** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:45 pm

1 with pace to stretch defences and get behind them

bellamy?

?

by **HOMER** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:00 pm

bellamy? is he that new ballboy that was running up and down the touchline!

by **PabloAimar** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:22 pm

i can understand why bellamy wasnt played.

his pace is frightening to most defences, but not to clichy, toure or eboue.

we have to face facts: we're not good enough against the big 3. untill we have the funds or scouting network to hunt and sign players like ronaldo instead of pennant or gallas instead of aurelio and duff instead of gonzalez - we're never gonna be good enough.

by **Smeg** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:28 pm

PabloAimar wrote:i can understand why bellamy wasnt played.

his pace is frightening to most defences, but not to clichy, toure or eboue.

we have to face facts: we're not good enough against the big 3. untill we have the funds or scouting network to hunt and sign players like ronaldo instead of pennant or gallas instead of aurelio and duff instead of gonzalez - we're never gonna be good enough.

Pennant is a good player.
Aurellio is a left back, Gallas a centre back.
Duff plays for Newcastle Utd now.

Liverpool FC Forum

Some painful home truths after arsenal - Istanbul was 2 years ago...

Who is online