Liverpool FC Forum

by **sgs** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:40 pm

..under Rafa Benitez? Are we a:
- passing team..;
- counterattacking team; or
- defensive team?

We won the CL and the FA cup under rafa; yes...
But by the very nature of these competitions, those were one off games. Its the league that defines a team.

On the basis of the Premiership, how do you define LFC under Rafa...

So much is made of Gerard playing on the right, but those are merely tactical decisions...The real question is about our concept of the game, which right now ranges from the listless, vacuous to non-existent.

We let Cisse go. He was not good enough we said. We let Nando go. He could not adapt to the English game we said..In their place we have three British players, but none seems able to truly blossom.

The top three teams in England (Chelski, MU and Arsenl) all went thru important changes at the end of last season. But a common factor remained. You know what Chelsea football is, as you know ManU football and Arsenl's passing game.

Guillem Balague the Spanish journalist says Rafa's football is based on a strong defence and good use of possession, applying a different tempo to the English game than others. In 3 seasons its hard to find evidence to support this, and IMO the constant changing of the team in part reflects a lack of clarity of ideas..

Today against Arsenal, while so much of the focus is on the use of Gerard on the right, the fundamental issue of balance in MF given the loss of Sissoko is lost in the debate.

Its sad to get to this, but I fear that Rafa, brilliant as he is, has somehow conspired to box himself into corner, from where he is increasingly defensive and thus unable to generate new thinking for the team, except to dig himself deeper.

Sad for a man so talented. For me, from this point on, its all a question of time.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:42 pm

sgs wrote:..under Rafa Benitez?
Are we a passing team..;
counterattacking team; or
defensive team?

Mate I dont think the players know what they are so dont ask us fans cause I havent got a clue.

by **sgs** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:08 pm

A proven yardstick for measuring the effectiveness of a manager is often the growth of individual players.

Thus u can look at Joe Cole @ Chelsea, the continued development of Didier Drogba, Lamps, etc. In ManU you can point at several...In Arsenal, there are legions of examples.

Who can you point to in Liverpool. Take Sissoko..For all his well known defensive attributes, its clear the man has the talent to rise to the level of Viera, but today his game remains one dimensional...

by **Hebz** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:05 pm

but what's Drogba more famous for? his amazing talent, or the fact he's great at diving in particular areas.

by **Squigels** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:05 am

sgs wrote:A proven yardstick for measuring the effectiveness of a manager is often the growth of individual players.

Thus u can look at Joe Cole @ Chelsea, the continued development of Didier Drogba, Lamps, etc. In ManU you can point at several...In Arsenal, there are legions of examples.

Who can you point to in Liverpool. Take Sissoko..For all his well known defensive attributes, its clear the man has the talent to rise to the level of Viera, but today his game remains one dimensional...

you could suggest that in Joe Cole (a wonderkid) and Drogba (a 24 million pound striker) costing a combined 32 million that development should be expected.

Untill this season Carragher was the most improved centre half in the english game. wasn't down to Houlier.

Sissoko is frightningly raw and possibly one dimensional still am i right in saying most people wouldn't have expected to see him lining up week in and week out when he first arrived his improvemnt has been immense.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:46 am

sgs wrote:A proven yardstick for measuring the effectiveness of a manager is often the growth of individual players.

Thus u can look at Joe Cole @ Chelsea, the continued development of Didier Drogba, Lamps, etc. In ManU you can point at several...In Arsenal, there are legions of examples.

Who can you point to in Liverpool. Take Sissoko..For all his well known defensive attributes, its clear the man has the talent to rise to the level of Viera, but today his game remains one dimensional...

That one statement underlines why you are talking sh*t.

"Sissoko has all the talent to rise to the level of Viera".

:wwww

Viera had more footballing ability in his left knacker than Momo will ever encapsulate.

He's a top player, but don't spout b*llocks. He will NEVER be anywhere near the Frenchman's level. (And I hate the tw*t.)

Improved players? Garcia - regular for Spain now - wasn't before. Alonso - same as.

Carragher and Gerrard have played their best football under Rafa, as have Finnan, Riise, Kewell, Didi, Biscan, Traore, etc, etc.

Momo was an unknown, yet he's now a household name around Europe. (Rafa signed him for Valencia aswell, but you'd know that, right?

)

If you must post - post the facts.

by **Raoul** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:30 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Improved players? Garcia - regular for Spain now - wasn't before. Alonso - same as.

Carragher and Gerrard have played their best football under Rafa, as have Finnan, Riise, Kewell, Didi, Biscan, Traore, etc, etc.

Momo was an unknown, yet he's now a household name around Europe. (Rafa signed him for Valencia aswell, but you'd know that, right? )

If you must post - post the facts.

Yes, Lando bet me too it.

Perhaps a mark of a good manager might be success in football competitions? I'm not sure, but I think Rafa has won the odd thing down the years...

by **AussieKopite** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:22 am

sgs wrote:..under Rafa Benitez? Are we a:
- passing team..;
- counterattacking team; or
- defensive team?

We won the CL and the FA cup under rafa; yes...
But by the very nature of these competitions, those were one off games. Its the league that defines a team.

On the basis of the Premiership, how do you define LFC under Rafa...

So much is made of Gerard playing on the right, but those are merely tactical decisions...The real question is about our concept of the game, which right now ranges from the listless, vacuous to non-existent.

We let Cisse go. He was not good enough we said. We let Nando go. He could not adapt to the English game we said..In their place we have three British players, but none seems able to truly blossom.

The top three teams in England (Chelski, MU and Arsenl) all went thru important changes at the end of last season. But a common factor remained. You know what Chelsea football is, as you know ManU football and Arsenl's passing game.

Guillem Balague the Spanish journalist says Rafa's football is based on a strong defence and good use of possession, applying a different tempo to the English game than others. In 3 seasons its hard to find evidence to support this, and IMO the constant changing of the team in part reflects a lack of clarity of ideas..

Today against Arsenal, while so much of the focus is on the use of Gerard on the right, the fundamental issue of balance in MF given the loss of Sissoko is lost in the debate.

Its sad to get to this, but I fear that Rafa, brilliant as he is, has somehow conspired to box himself into corner, from where he is increasingly defensive and thus unable to generate new thinking for the team, except to dig himself deeper.

Sad for a man so talented. For me, from this point on, its all a question of time.

When they turn up to play they're a passing team. But as we saw against Everton, United and the Gooners when they're pressured the game plan falls apart and the only passing occurs between the back 4 and the wingers.

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:28 am

At the moment we are a team of bottlers who cant compete against the best. its that simple.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:50 am

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:51 am

Yeah, sorry Leon, this is the first time we've played badly against a top team in years in the league. Theres supporting your club, and theres just blind stupidity.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:19 am

dawson99 wrote:Yeah, sorry Leon, this is the first time we've played badly against a top team in years in the league. Theres supporting your club, and theres just blind stupidity.

Dawson lad, if you think we played badly then you are on something very strong and very wrong.

We bossed the first 30-40 minutes of the game, and simply lacked a killer touch in the final third.

The first goal in these big games, in fact in EVERY game is of the upmost importance. Score it and you will not lose the game.

We have played badly against the top clubs for years - as AC Milan, Chelsea, Barcelona and United and Arsenal will testify.

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:23 am

we could bhoss every game 90 minutes but its the points on the board that count lad. And either we dont have the killer finish, or something, but we ARE getting emabarressed year in year out by the 'big 3'

{also, living in london, surrounded by gooners, today is the worst day of the year by far so most of what i say is purely down to me getting screamed at by untold amounts of gooners. believe it or not, im one of the only liverpool fans ehre, and everyone likes to remind me about yesterday}

im just frustrated, same as everyone else. Every year its the same, we start badly, then come jan we will have a run and everyone will say again how good we are. We do have the team to be pushing so much mroe than we are but soemthings just not working away from home and its just fecking annoying me!!!

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:47 am

dawson99 wrote:we could bhoss every game 90 minutes but its the points on the board that count lad. And either we dont have the killer finish, or something, but we ARE getting emabarressed year in year out by the 'big 3'

{also, living in london, surrounded by gooners, today is the worst day of the year by far so most of what i say is purely down to me getting screamed at by untold amounts of gooners. believe it or not, im one of the only liverpool fans ehre, and everyone likes to remind me about yesterday}

im just frustrated, same as everyone else. Every year its the same, we start badly, then come jan we will have a run and everyone will say again how good we are. We do have the team to be pushing so much mroe than we are but soemthings just not working away from home and its just fecking annoying me!!!

so what should we do ? Wind the club up and follow a rugby team ?

Should we fuc.k.

Get behind the boys and back them even more.

We lost our five hardest games of the season, so what.

In the scheme of things did we expect to score any more than 5 points from these games ? NO !

However we can still beat all of these teams at Anfield, and then you will see some very different posts.

If we are awful, then you will hear me blast the boys (United) but in the games against Arsenal we played good at times, at Bolton we where robbed by a truly awful decision, played some good stuff but lacked desire against the blue shi.te and lost to a wonderful strike from arguably the best striker in the league at the minute when a draw would have been a fair result.

If we are garbage then fair play, but we have only played badly in one of those games - at Old Trafford.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:50 am

dawson99 wrote:we could bhoss every game 90 minutes but its the points on the board that count lad. And either we dont have the killer finish, or something, but we ARE getting emabarressed year in year out by the 'big 3'

{also, living in london, surrounded by gooners, today is the worst day of the year by far so most of what i say is purely down to me getting screamed at by untold amounts of gooners. believe it or not, im one of the only liverpool fans ehre, and everyone likes to remind me about yesterday}

im just frustrated, same as everyone else. Every year its the same, we start badly, then come jan we will have a run and everyone will say again how good we are. We do have the team to be pushing so much mroe than we are but soemthings just not working away from home and its just fecking annoying me!!!

Whats worrying me is maybe we wont get the run of wins this year "What if this is as good as it gets ?" to quote Jack Nicholson.

Liverpool FC Forum

What is liverpool football....

Who is online