Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:25 am

I thought that i would bring this subject up again because it does my head in every time i start discussing it with someone.

Our academy is not a waste of money, it is not poor, it is not 'not doing its job'. I think many fans misunderstand the word "academy" to a certain extent. To me, an academy provides fantastic training facilities but by no means will provide top notch young players year in year out.

The job of an academy at a big side is not to produce an entire team of young, local lads who will storm the title every year. The closest example to that happening was the the Mancs team a few years back, and even then: Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville x 2 is not an entire team. Most of us would argue the Nevilles aren't exactly a plus point from the Manc academy. And yet it seems many people expect 5-10 of our first team to be young local lads brought through the academy. It doesn't work like that.

Let's look at what our academy produced that is still here:

Carragher
Owen
Gerrard.

Others such as Thompson and Wright were allowed to move on due to their lack of first team opportunities.

Provided these lads all had reasonable length contracts (and let's not forget that 2 already do) their value combined would probably at least be around the £80 million mark in today's market. Let's consider that for a minute:

That is £80 million that we have made almost out of nothing. Even when the academy was revamped (and admittedly we haven't yet seen a great return on that) it didn't cost us upwards of £80 million. The revamp to the academy is, in a sense, paid for by the success of the academy before all that work was done to it. And what success.

The academy has handed us there an excellent base for a team, and as I have already said added a great deal to our club's value.

Defence - anywhere across it - Carra
Midfield - anywhere across it - Gerrard
Up Front - Owen

That is a fantastic building block our academy has provided, and that Houllier didn't build on it is a real shame for him, as well as us.

The argument is often put forward to defend the regime of Houllier, and the decisions of the management staff that none of the players let go have proved themselves elsewhere to be of Liverpool quality, and therefore the correct decisions were made to let them go. This is a perfectly valid argument. I just thought it would be nice to dispell the myth another way, and let's celebrate what the academy HAS done.

The 3 players mentioned have been mainstays of our side for around 5 years, and luck/injuries/contracts providing will be for another 10 years or so. In that time, I have no doubt the academy will produce a couple more gems to keep us going. It would be incredibly greedy and unrealistic to expect much more from the academy than what we've had.

Let's hope under new management that we can have quality players prospering around them.

Do other forum members agree with me or not?

by **simic_ie** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:35 pm

I agree with what you are saying St Michael, it's just like you said the thre mentioned above have been mainstays for the last 5 years... we haven't seen any young players come and establishing themselves since then. Fans are gettin frustrated because since the money was spent on the acedemy, as of yet, there has been no obviousreturn. I agree totally with what has been done ot the Acedemy because there will be results sooner rather than later, and ususally thise who make it to the first team are well worth the wait

by **lurd** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:01 pm

A post well documented St.Michael. Liverpool FC acadamy is amongst the finest in country and as a result is a massive plus for Liverpool football Club, a mate of my uncle takes time to go and watch acadamy games and likes watching young lads in 2 or 3 seasons time will be given a chance in the game, if not at Liverpool then else where. Stephen Wright is a fine example, broke into the 1st team done a good job and then sold to Sunderland. Ok i thought his departure was a little premature, however that's another story.

Those of us who buy the LFC magazine will know what the latest from our acadamy is, as its well featured. Players like Michael Foley, Daniel Sjolund who has now moved on have all featured here. Robbie Foy is another, for those of you who doubt the importance of the acadamy take a little time to get up there and have alook. You wont be disapointed

Cheers

Lurd

by **anfieldadorer** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:32 pm

Middlesboro invested over the last 10 years in buying players and then look at the Premier League table. Look at the millions Newcastle United invested - they still have not won a trophy since 1969 - they do still have a healthy bank balance but that is due to the love of their supporters rather than trophies.
Trophies have been few for Blackburn but they have collected £17m for Duff also £5m for Dunn is not a bad.
Manure has an average of over 40% of players in their first lineup grown home. Liverpool has won many trophies and average over 30% of players in their lineup grown home. Owen, Carragher, and Gerard are the latest players delivering at Anfield.

by **stmichael** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:52 pm

Another academy product, youngster Stephen Warnock, is set to sign a new two year deal at Anfield after a successful loan spell at Coventry City saw him named the club's player of the year. Warnock's contract was up but the player is highly rated by the club and Chief Executive Rick Parry, and the two-year deal is a reward for the boyhood Liverpool fan.

Warnock can play left back, centre half and midfield, and is a tough competitor with a good engine.

So Parry rates him and wants to keep him at the club. Lets hope that he gets some first team experience next season then, even if it is only in the Carling Cup or whatever.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:11 pm

St Michael,

I often don't read your longer posts like this i i'll find myself disagreeing with almost everything you say. Imo while you write and present your opinions superbly, the content of what you say is often [email]cr@p...[/email] to be blunt.

However... on this occassion i have to say, you've hit the nail on the head.

Over the last 10-12 years Liverpool, United and West Ham have produced the best young players.

Liverpool...

Matteo, Wright, Carragher, Gerrard, Thompson, McManaman, Fowler, Owen.

Man Utd...

G. Neville, P. Neville, Brown, O'Shea, Giggs, Scholes, Butt, Beckham and now Fletcher...

West Ham...

Ferdinand, Carrick, Cole, Defoe...

I think it will continue with Liverpool and United continuing to produce the best players as a result of our academy.

Players such as Owen, Gerrard, Fowler will always come through at this club and will always be our best players.

by **JBG** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:07 pm

Yeah, Man UTD, West Ham and Liverpool have produced the best youngsters of the past decade or so, although Leeds had a purple patch at the end of the 1990s, with the likes of Smith, Kewell etc.

I honestly think that we need to give the academy more of a chance. Fair enough, graduates like Gerrard are few and far between, but I still think we are better off blooding young British guys instead of investing in foreigners who hang around the fringe of the squad. That's not being rascist, its economic: I'd sooner see a graduate who cost us nothing on minor wages than a guy like Diomonde stink the reserves up.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:37 am

very true barnes, it would save the club millions a year if we kept the reserves mostly home grown. Forign flops will drain resources without giving any significant return.

by **azriahmad** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:46 am

It is ironic that Houllier has upgraded and modernised Melwood and the academy yet there was not many players retained and given a good run to become first team players. Here, I believe the problem is not the academy nor the players produced. It was the manager himself and that is what I find ironic.

Houllier placed great importance on youth development as a foundation for the future. Yet he himself placed little faith to the players "last mile development" from the reserves to becoming first team players. I think he did not do them enough justice by not giving them enough time to establish themselves. By "them" I mean locally produced players.

Instead, while the academy is producing some promising players, Houllier continued to buy dodgy/unproven foreign based players and even some of these purchases were not given the proper run in the team and then became wasted in the reserves, players like Diomonde and even Diao. It seemed like Houllier wanted to buy the players he thinks can deliver the championship, and realised he made mistakes with some of these purchases, go out and buy more players and doesn't have enough confidence to nurture promising youngsters into full fledged first team players.

The academy should continue. Whether these youngsters do ultimately become the core players in the future is up to the manager to carry on with the final phase of development and give them the necessary exposure in the top flight.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:49 am

There’s a worrying trend developing with young players being farmed out to lower league clubs ,and on their return to Liverpool becoming disillusioned by the reality thus requesting transfers to clubs that they will never achieve their true potential at ,there is such importance placed on instant success that these promising graduates of the Academy are not afforded the time to infiltrate the first team ,and it is now becoming a rarity for managers to take the risk developing them by introducing them to first team experience ,sad but true and its now slowly suffocating our game at grass roots level.

by **Sean** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:56 am

Given the success of the academy, Steve Heighway must be doing a good job. Is it time to promote him to assistant manager ?

by **BoogiePimp** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:43 am

If there is no talent around to work on then the Academy has a pretty tough job , You need the youngsters to have a decent ability first ,I say give it time the gems will come through

by **begintoend** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:56 am

The academy is not only about home-grown youngsters. It is also about foriegn potential youngsters.
That will give our academy a level of competitiveness within the youngsters. Arsenal will be the next youth developement hub. It has brought up local and foriegn waiting to spring up to the 1st team very soon.
Lucky LFC is not far behind on this. The academy is doing well. Given correct exposure will develope the current crop to be the next Gerrard or Owen.

by **big al** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 pm

Sorry to say this guys but the youth system in the British isles is pathetic. Yes some great players have emerged from the afforementioned academies but the key word is great here. Once upon a time liverpool had one of the finest youth systems in England. Players would spent their late teens and early 20s in the reserves before emerging onto th eowrld stage. Many of these players were not extremely talented players gifted with natural ability, but they were well schooled and worked hard and taught a very simple game of pass and move. Such systems still operate in clubs such as united and Arsenal were they do spent more time in finishing players of. Liverpool of the last few years has had to rush the development of players and I believe we've paid a price for this. We have lost some talented young players to injury and I my opinion they were never able to fulfil their true potential, This was very evident in the Evans era, were Rednapp for example played far too many games and as a result became injury prone, There are many other examples of this, Whilst I don't think Baros and Kirkland's injuries are an example of this rushed process, I think people should stop and ask why are they in a team at such a young age. Players on average peak at 24 to 30 years old, yes their have always been exemptions but if you look at the England side you'll see a mixture of hardened and seasoned professionals and young players rushed to play at the highest level because no one else is of and equal ability. France on the other hand will have a team of players who are all in the age band above with the few exemptions being over 30. this is in the main the same for every team in the competion bar England. Ronaldo will be playing for Portugal (before someone jumps in but) The truth is re England that Alan shearer should be leading the english forward line but he perhaps feels that he can leave it to the youngsters, that is and has proved to be a misguided philosophy. Liverpools Academy has produced exceptionl players but what has happened to the team players, the quiet men who go about the work with no glamour, outstanding flair but who with the right attitude helped LFC conquer europe. All Englishmen and for that matter British islanders should read What robert Pires wrote on England in this weeks sporting life. Food for thought.

by **JBG** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:20 pm

I still think that we are better off having 18 or 19 year old lads backing up the first team than a load of over rated drift wood brought in from abroad.

I would prefer a scenario of 2 senior goalkeepers, 14 senior outfield players and the rest of the squad being made up with youngsters. That way the club can use its money sparingly and more shrewdly in the transfer market, and while many of the young squad members would eventually drift through the net as the year's pass, we certainly would see an increase in decent youngsters coming through.

It must be very disillusioning for a youngster in Melwood nowadays knowing that regardless of how hard he works, some guy like Biscan, Troare or Smicer is ahead of him in the queue for the first team.

Incidentally I see Patridge and Warnock have been handed contract extensions.

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