Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:20 pm

When I was young I was often told that the reason black professional footballers were rare, is that they had strong heads but weak legs and couldn't standup to the hard physical tackles. While we all appreciate that that was a load of bull**** now, there are still plenty that believe that black people have mental weaknesses etc even after all these years.

There is a similar excuse used for the almost total lack of Asians in the professional ranks. They are too thin and weak to stand up to the riguers of the game etc. One look at the Pakistani fast bowlers should be enough to convince people that this is a fallacy. So is it just a culture thing, that they dont like or want to play football?

The almost total lack of Black, coloured or asian MANAGERS seems to indicate that racism still plays a part in football. Paul Ince has just become manager of a lower league club , would he have received better offers if he wasnt black?

The only black manager of a top English club I can think of is Gullitt and he was Dutch so it somehow doesnt seem to count

. Surely by now after 35 years of black players in the top division we should have more.

Is English football just hiding its inherent racism?

by **taff** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:42 pm

Ther may be some racism of course although in my view the main reason is that football is not the big thing in these communities that it is in ours.

I happen to live in an area of Cardiff which is classed as an Asian area and in my street the main game you see kids playing is cricket. Go down a few streets with West Indian and White kids and you see football and rugby being played.

It would certainly help the current climate to have a Muslim superstar in the premiership but only if he is good enough and its such a competitive game from a young age that you have to be bought up in a football culture from a young age to have a chance to break into a professional outfit at any league.

I also think that there is enough competition and pool of talent that if any community doesnt get involved then nobody is bothered as theres enough resource anyway. This is a professional hard money machine and the only colour involved is green

by **woof woof !** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:54 pm

s@int wrote:Is English football just hiding its inherent racism?

Not sure why the emphasis is on ENGLISH football Saint . i think as far as Europe is concerned we are one of the more enlightend countries .

But to address your question more directly . John Barnes had a top managers job and he failed . Was it because he was black ? No :no

,it was because as a manager he wasn't good enough , simple as .

I honestly believe that if a black manager had the credentials that the likes of Rafa or Mourinho possess , they'd have no probem obtaining a managers job in England . How they obtain those credentials is another story but please lets not get into the old Ali G refrain of "is it 'cause I black" ?

Football is not the only sport in which there is a dearth of black managers . Rugby & Cricket are even more poorly represented , also in the USA American football seemingly played by teams composed to at least 90% from black players also fails to show a fair return on the number of black mgrs (off hand I can't think of any ! although Philidelphia Eagles did at one time have an African American coach) .

Formula 1 ? :laugh:

lets not go there .

I don't think it's a question of if your face fits etc , if you've got the talent you'll make it .

by **Effes** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:11 pm

This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

by **taff** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:15 pm

A tale that happened to me many years ago

I used to play rugby for Tottenham believe it or not, when I lived in London. They were based in White Heart Lane in Haringay (the loony leftie one)

The council went on a vendetta against the sport and insisted that to stay on the sportsfield we had to have Asisn players to reflect the community. Now I was a player who happened to move to the area and it broke my heart when we were forced to leave the original home. It really affected the local lads who's fathers and grandfathers had founded and played for the club.

The club put an advert in the local press asking for asian players but none turned up. The council had a bee in their bonnet that rugby union was an elitist racist sport. We lost the clubhouse and the playing field and had to move.

The thing is, that rugby club was the most mixed I have ever been involved with. Firstly the cockneys, white and black, then Londoners, British, again white and black. Irish, Greek, Turk, South African, Australian, New Zealand, French and some German guy who wasnt very good but game and fit.

I am left wing by nature but a part of hates the leftie thing because of this. You cant force people to play and you cant pick people who arent as good because of race, it undermines everyone involved. There was different colour and different religion involved.

The council gave huge amounts to the cricket development school they had, which was mostly asians and west indians. Now I had no problem with that as they were the talented ones but others suffered because of the reverse racism.

Sport should and on the whole is about the most committed and the best performers regardless of any background.

by **67-1161385641** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:24 pm

People play the racist card too much for my liking, if you're :censored:

at something you're :censored:

at something it doesn't matter what colour you are.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:28 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
s@int wrote:Is English football just hiding its inherent racism?

Not sure why the emphasis is on ENGLISH football Saint . i think as far as Europe is concerned we are one of the more enlightend countries .

But to address your question more directly . John Barnes had a top managers job and he failed . Was it because he was black ? No ,it was because as a manager he wasn't good enough , simple as .

I honestly believe that if a black manager had the credentials that the likes of Rafa or Mourinho possess , they'd have no probem obtaining a managers job in England . How they obtain those credentials is another story but please lets not get into the old Ali G refrain of "is it 'cause I black" ?

Football is not the only sport in which there is a dearth of black managers . Rugby & Cricket are even more poorly represented , also in the USA American football seemingly played by teams composed to at least 90% from black players also fails to show a fair return on the number of black mgrs (off hand I can't think of any ! although Philidelphia Eagles did at one time have an African American coach) .

Formula 1 ? lets not go there .

I don't think it's a question of if your face fits etc , if you've got the talent you'll make it .

If you start bringing in other sports it gets even worse, Tennis , Golf (Woods is an exceptional talent) Motor sports.

Yet at least these sports have a reasonable excuse in that you need a substantial amount of money to get started in these sports (coaching ,fees ,equipment etc) The other excuse they use, is these sports are strongly linked to sponsorship and blacks arnt frequently used in ads.

Its very hard to prove your good enough if you never get the chance. What special credentials did Southgate or Roeder have that Ince or other black players havent?

Barnes was probably the most famous and talented black footballer of all time in England. He wasn't like Gazza a head case or a drunk etc but he had to move to Scotland to get a chance as a HEADCOACH, Daglish was the director of football. When O'Neil took the job it was as manager!

While playing sport ability can overcome some if not most obsticles, but once it becomes someones choice who they pick and were ability isnt immediately obvious,they dont even consider the black option.

by **Pedro O'Maradona** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:34 pm

Effes wrote:This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

I remember hearing that about black tennis players (apart from Arthur Ash and later Yannick Noah, and then the Williams sisters) also Black Golfers, (Vigay Singh and Tiger woods), I think it all depends on the enviroment you are brought up in, (not colour) If you are brought up in a place where a specific sport is popular chances are you will end up playing that sport, If you happen to be good at it, well and good, doesnt matter what your skin colour is..... Its a question of cultural preference...

by **taff** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:34 pm

Barnes you use as an argument

Great player no doubt at all.

He had a chance above his experience and was found out. Nothing to do with colour.

Ince IMO is lucky to be where he is, word on him is divided.

Southgate was always seen as an intelligent thinker who one day would be a coach. Time will judge him

With this argument isnt athletics racist against white people. Or say Basketball. Huge Eastern europeans and African Americans only need apply.

You might hava a point but your examples need improving

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:38 pm

Effes wrote:This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

I dont know if this is true but I heard that because blacks have heavier bones they find it very difficult to swim.

by **Pedro O'Maradona** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:44 pm

s@int wrote:
Effes wrote:This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

I dont know if this is true but I heard that because blacks have heavier bones they find it very difficult to swim.

yeah I heard that too and some theory about skin cells, again that theory was supposed to have been flawed....I dunno if either have any truth tho....If you have heavier bones wouldnt you be a slower runner as well?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:47 pm

taff wrote:Barnes you use as an argument

Great player no doubt at all.

He had a chance above his experience and was found out. Nothing to do with colour.

Ince IMO is lucky to be where he is, word on him is divided.

Southgate was always seen as an intelligent thinker who one day would be a coach. Time will judge him

With this argument isnt athletics racist against white people. Or say Basketball. Huge Eastern europeans and African Americans only need apply.

You might hava a point but your examples need improving

The point im making Taff is I didnt have much of a choice of which black managers I picked as examples.

and as I said Barnes wasnt a manager but O'Neil was.

As for basketball maybe they should have size divisions, similar to weight divisions in boxing, at least then "normal" people might have a chance.

by **stoney** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:23 pm

s@int wrote:
Effes wrote:This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

I dont know if this is true but I heard that because blacks have heavier bones they find it very difficult to swim.

For me it's simple really and as a black person and knowing other black people, I'd have to say that on the whole, black people just aren't into swimming. We seem to prefer/be better at the more physical sports.

by **metalhead** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:48 pm

Well you do have some great muslim stars in the premiership, like Van Persie (yep he is a muslim), Mido, Ghaly and you must remember that Zidane is a muslim superstar, best player in modern times me thinks! We also have Zlatan Imbrahimovic, Ribery, etc... many good muslim players.

Hey, Riikjard is black and he is managing one of the best teams in europe!

I'm sure other races will become football stars in the future.

by **daxy1** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:06 pm

Effes wrote:This is not racist - but fact.

Why are there not many black Olympic swimmers?

mate there is only room for ERIC THE EEL that man can swim (just) ... :wwww

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