Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:28 pm

You don't rotate goalkeepers, you drop them. If we had a really good goalkeeper in reserve I'd be tempted as Reina's confidence, along with the rest of the defence is at a low ebb. The simple fact of the matter is though, that we don't. Those who are advocating dropping reina and reinstating Dudek are either selectively forgetful or very recent additions to the Worldwide band of Liverpool supporters. Dudek is simply not an option in anything but the most dire of circumstances so it's a resounding NO from me.

by **murphy0151** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:51 pm

The free kick yesterday was in no way Reina's fault. Not for the awarding off the free kick which was clearly well inside the box and not for the shot into the net. The shot into the net should off been stopped by the two runners out off the wall who were Gerrard and Carragher. If you want to blame anyone for the goal blame these two and get off Reinas back. I personnal thought Pennant should off done better, he turned sideways on. But the job was the two local lads to close the ball down if there was a touch before the kick and they simply failed to do there job but, cause there un slaggable to most there not going to recieve any critism from you lot.

Its the same with Garcia the other night he hit a missed place pass, like Mommo done like Gerrrard had done like Xabi had with out the crowd getting on there cases. But as soon as little Luis did there was the usual no.bhead wan.kers who cried and roar'ed in dispair. This effects the players but it pisssses me off, it wasnt even two minutes later that Carragher hit a missed place pass and can you guess there wasnt no crowd moaning.

At the end off the day we got beat by Bolton it happens. We started off so well again hitting the woodwork and there was some lovely interchanges between Pennant Gerrard and Kuyt from the right. Aslo there keeper made some great saves. Bolton hadnt even had a sniff intill that tw.at off a linesman made that decision. Then the game changed, our players heads dropped a bit after this. Bolton are a hard team to play against especialy if you go a goal behind.

Yes Reina has made a few mistakes but so has nearly every player in a Liverpool shirt it happens.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:33 pm

peewee wrote:
Sabre wrote:
or are we saying its ok to not defend if a bad decision goes against us

No, what we are saying is that a player can lose all his credit in some games, which is worrying.

i dont think anyone is saying he is a bad keeper mate, but his form is not good at the moment and i think the uncertainty in the defence is down to him.

a keeper has no hiding place sabre, if he makes mistakes they are obvious to everyone, like when dudek made a few mistakes. dudek is paying for those mistakes now by being our second choice keeper, reina also needs to be held accountable, its not just a one off mistake, the mistakes are building up

Sabre, Peewee I agree with both of you and your points on Reina.
Sabre I fully get what you mean about Reina losing his confidence (Credit) due to the bad decision. While I don't think that a bad descision will affect confidence it can certainly be playing on a players mind and seeing how pissed off Reina was I venture to say that his poor positioning may have been in some part down to his aggrieved feelings toward the bastards in the black. Still that's no excuse in my book for a professional footballer.

Peewee your point about uncertainty in the defence being down to Reina is becoming more valid by the day but I believe this all stems from the LB situation. As I am seeing it currently a good percentage of our conceeded goals is coming from our left side. Riise is prone to getting caught upfield after attacks and to be fair does most sometimes track back, but Aurelio for me is a typical Brazilian that goes forward but doesn't rush to get back. This is costing us dearly and although not directly leading to poor form from Reina is putting him under more pressure than last season. As the saying goes, 'a keepers' only as good as his defence' and so far this season the whole defensive unit has been way below our expected standard.

I don't believe anything is going to be achieved by dropping (or rotating) Reina and in fact is going to lead to even more defensive uncertainty as the defenders need to have an almost telepathic understanding with the keeper and changing the man between the sticks too often ain't gonna help.

by **JC_81** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:37 pm

murphy0151 wrote:The shot into the net should off been stopped by the two runners out off the wall who were Gerrard and Carragher. If you want to blame anyone for the goal blame these two and get off Reinas back. I personnal thought Pennant should off done better, he turned sideways on. But the job was the two local lads to close the ball down if there was a touch before the kick and they simply failed to do there job but, cause there un slaggable to most there not going to recieve any critism from you lot.

That's the worst analysis of a passage of play I have ever heard I think.

Put bluntly the linesman screwed us over with the free-kick decision, but Reina's blunder in inexplicably going to ground instead of covering his side of the goal was an even bigger blunder.

It would have taken an unbelievable free kick to get the ball over the wall and then under the bar from that range, something Gary fu.cking Speed was never going to manage. His only option was go for power and either drive it towards the wall and hope for a deflection, or drive it to the left of the wall and hope Reina sees it late. He did the latter and Reina fu.cked it up.

His confidence is shot now, but dropping him would do no good. Even in his current state Reina is less jittery than Dudek, and our only option is to play him until he regains his confidence and form. I still maintain he is a good keeper, and lets not forget how young he is, every young goalkeeper goes through phases like this. It's testament to him that some people don't actually realise how young he is for a keeper.

by **Rush** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:12 pm

Who can promise that Dudek would do a better job, when was the last time we saw him play. Stick with Reina, it,s just a patch he his going through, won,t last long though, that I am certain of.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:41 pm

If Reina's confidence is low, dropping him might lower his confidence even more. He'll get through this current patch. Play Dudek in the Carling Cup, to give him a few games too.

by **PabloAimar** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:25 pm

and bring back kirkland and carson from loan....

set up a 4-man battle royal and see who wins the chance to be 1st choice keeper.

my money's on carson... kirkland will injure his back trying to body slam pepe reina, reina will stink face dudek and then turn to lil' carson who'll by crying in the corner. however, dudek will recover to flip reina out of the ring from behind, playing exactly into carson's game plan... as dudek begins to pose to the crowd having thrown out the no.1 contender, carson will perch himself on the top rope and perform the 'flying bitch slap' on the the wobbly-legged pole, sending him out of the ring.

by **Poolinc.** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:34 pm

personally i believe it's a myth that reina's a fantastic keeper. I've always believed it! And the myth is being exposed with more regularity! Put Dudek back in goals, he couldn't be any worse than reina is now. besides he's a better shot stopper and has quicker reflexes!

by **Alanay** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:41 am

I'm just thinking that Reina is on his low and probably he's not getting enough break to look back at his performance and re-build his rhythm. I think he's a bit out of his play. May be he'll have better perspective by being on the bench a couple of games.

And I think Reina is a bit low on reflex....

On the other hand, I think we should have a good 2nd goal keeper to make this rotation happen. So whether it is Dudek or Carson, does not matter. But we need a good plan for the last man also.

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:59 pm

Why drop him? That would only give his confidence another blow. I don't think he did that much wrong on saturday. That absolute t.w.a.t. Andi Halliday made a shocking decission which cost us the game. I know Renia dived the wrong way but if you look at the freekick from behind the goal a couple of players in the wall jump and it looks as if the ball will go the way he's diving. After that it was always going to be difficult cos we had to get a goal they could just counter. The second goal was just a good goal the cross was perfect and i don't think anyone could have done much about it. Just because a few bolton fans start singing Dodgy keeper doesn't mean its true they thought he had handled the ball outside the box when he clearly hadn't. The only person who should be dropped after that game is Andi Halliday who should never be allowed to grace a premiership match ever again. :angry:

by **jkop** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:22 pm

Reina was given 10 games to come good if he doesnt then obviously Dudek will be back so lets not forget what Dudek has done in the past he is still a quality keeper.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Oh my f*cking word.

You lot should be ashamed of yourselves.

Everyone was saying "Reina is the best/2nd best 'keeper in the league" last season.

That hasn't changed. The fact is the defence hasn't been settled, which would unsettle ANY goalkeeper.

Injuries and blatent errors by officials are to blame for most of our goals, NOT Pepe.

Yes he dropped a clanger earlier this season, but what 'keeper doesn't? It's the constant sniping that gets to peoples confidence, not the errors.

All you lot asking for Dudek to come in have f*cking short memories. He's a liability, he wouldn't know how to come for a cross if he had detailed instructions in writing, audio, video and brail.
It is DUDEK who unsettled our defence.

It is our ever-changing defence that unsettles REINA.

And before anyone has another snipe, most changes are forced on Rafa - injuries aren't rotation. :no

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:24 pm

Poolinc. wrote:personally i believe it's a myth that reina's a fantastic keeper. I've always believed it! And the myth is being exposed with more regularity! Put Dudek back in goals, he couldn't be any worse than reina is now. besides he's a better shot stopper and has quicker reflexes!

No, you're absolutely right.

It's all a myth.

Even the record-breaking run of clean sheets.

You imbecile.

You reckon you could have stopped that header? An inch-perfect cross tw*tted at about 80 mph?

Get real.

Robinson let an easier one in against Pompey.

I suppose he should be dropped aswell?

Dudek, for all your belief, is a liability. Every game he played last season resulted in us conceding.

He doesn't breed confidence amongst the defenders.

Everyone - blame Pepe all you like - you all love making him the scapegoat.

The fact that the defence had a shocker doesn't matter - no one can say Finnan was sh*te, Agger and JC should have got to the cross, etc.

Because that would mean turning on your favourite players.

Pathetic.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:39 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Poolinc. wrote:personally i believe it's a myth that reina's a fantastic keeper. I've always believed it! And the myth is being exposed with more regularity! Put Dudek back in goals, he couldn't be any worse than reina is now. besides he's a better shot stopper and has quicker reflexes!

No, you're absolutely right.

It's all a myth.

Even the record-breaking run of clean sheets.

You imbecile.

You reckon you could have stopped that header? An inch-perfect cross tw*tted at about 80 mph?

Get real.

Robinson let an easier one in against Pompey.

I suppose he should be dropped aswell?

Dudek, for all your belief, is a liability. Every game he played last season resulted in us conceding.

He doesn't breed confidence amongst the defenders.

Everyone - blame Pepe all you like - you all love making him the scapegoat.

The fact that the defence had a shocker doesn't matter - no one can say Finnan was sh*te, Agger and JC should have got to the cross, etc.

Because that would mean turning on your favourite players.

Pathetic.

RIGHT ON MA BRUVVA :buttrock

This is all just a typical knee jerk reaction in the wake of another crappy performance. If anyone wants a scapegoat then blame the whole of the team. They win together, They lose together.

CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH ?? :buttrock

by **Poolinc.** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:40 pm

RUSHIE#9 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Poolinc. wrote:personally i believe it's a myth that reina's a fantastic keeper. I've always believed it! And the myth is being exposed with more regularity! Put Dudek back in goals, he couldn't be any worse than reina is now. besides he's a better shot stopper and has quicker reflexes!

No, you're absolutely right.

It's all a myth.

Even the record-breaking run of clean sheets.

You imbecile.

You reckon you could have stopped that header? An inch-perfect cross tw*tted at about 80 mph?

Get real.

Robinson let an easier one in against Pompey.

I suppose he should be dropped aswell?

Dudek, for all your belief, is a liability. Every game he played last season resulted in us conceding.

He doesn't breed confidence amongst the defenders.

Everyone - blame Pepe all you like - you all love making him the scapegoat.

The fact that the defence had a shocker doesn't matter - no one can say Finnan was sh*te, Agger and JC should have got to the cross, etc.

Because that would mean turning on your favourite players.

Pathetic.

RIGHT ON MA BRUVVA

This is all just a typical knee jerk reaction in the wake of another crappy performance. If anyone wants a scapegoat then blame the whole of the team. They win together, They lose together.

CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH ??

This is not knee-jerk. I asked a simple question on this site last season "Was Reina so much better than Dudek....." And i got slaughtered by reasonable debate by most, and abused as an ignoramus by some, who couldn't handle an opion at variance with their own! The question is now more topical than last season. So I'll smile and ask again! Is Reina so much better than Dudek, that we discard Dudek down the same road as other keepers in the past? Reina IS NOT! See, I'll answer as well to make it easy for ya, oh and Lando too :shifty

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