Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:04 pm

Its probably more my problem with Pennant than anything Ace. I dont really like knocking Liverpool players, especially players who are working and trying hard like Pennant. I just dont think hes good enough to be honest. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and by the end of the season I will be a Pennant fan.

Having thought about what you said about Garcia - I agree your idea for first sub was better than mine

by **woof woof !** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:21 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
s@int wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Of course we missed Sissoko, Galatasaray had too much time and space in posession in the midfield, that wouldnt have happened if Momo was playing.
I was happy with the line-up that Rafa selected, but think once we went 3-0 up and they started taking chances with our left hand side totally exposed we should of changed things then.
I can see why Rafa didnt as we always looked like we would score more, but we hung on in a game that we were 3-0 up in, against one of the poorest sides we will face.
On gerrard playing centre midfield, i think the reason we were exposed is that he was too cavalier, he has been afforded the luxury the last year or so of drifting around the pitch so he can be our biggest attacking influence, but centre midfielders need to be more disciplined, and tbh Rafa should say to Steven....you say you want to play centre midfield...well with that position you carry a responsibility to not just go forward when you want, you also have to hold your position and help protect the back 4, would you still rather play there, or have the role on the right....where you can drift around the pitch and pretty much attack at will.

On a side note, i thought Pennant who played on the right had his best game in a red shirt.

Agree with everything you said Ace apart from the Pennant bit.

Dont you think Pennant had a good game ?

He still needs to be a bit more positive at times but he worked hard and produced far more of the penetrating runs i was hoping we would see from him.
Its Luis Garcia that i'd of taken off at 3-0, he didnt bother tracking his man at all, and seemed only to think about attacking, thats great if you can get away with it, but Arellio was getting exposed 2 v 1 all of the time, i dont think Finnan was.

I kind of agree with the pair of you . ie I would have taken Garcia and Pennant off when we hit 3-0 . Both had good games up until galatasaray really started to come at us . Would've pulled Gerrard out to the right Momo on in the middle and other fresh legs on the left (forgot who was on the bench ?) .

At 3-0 we were cruising and it should have stayed that way . No complaints though ,we got the three points and unlike many others I don't think the return fixture will be that difficult . Rafa will set us up to contain them and maybe hit on the break, can deffo see us getting at least a point at their place.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:24 pm

s@int wrote:Its probably more my problem with Pennant than anything Ace. I dont really like knocking Liverpool players, especially players who are working and trying hard like Pennant. I just dont think hes good enough to be honest. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and by the end of the season I will be a Pennant fan.

Having thought about what you said about Garcia - I agree your idea for first sub was better than mine

Dont you rate him ?

I like the look of him tbh, he needs to get himself into better positions at the far post when we are attacking from the left...that way he will get amongst the goals, like Gonzalez did on the opposite side against Spurs.
But he was far more positive yesterday and attacked the full back far more often.
He has had a slow start to his Liverpool career, but to be fair his chances are always going to limited with Gerrard playing on the right more often than not.
I am optimistic that he will keep progressing and feel that he is a player with the potential to change games coming on as a substitute.

by **Owzat** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:30 pm

I am happy that Rafa went with an attacking starting line-up, I think perhaps he could have brought on Sissoko at half time which makes more sense in hindsight but would have made sense at the time as well.

Good result, let's hope we push for a win in Bourdeaux and get the points (over the next two games) needed for qualification into the next round

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:53 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
s@int wrote:Its probably more my problem with Pennant than anything Ace. I dont really like knocking Liverpool players, especially players who are working and trying hard like Pennant. I just dont think hes good enough to be honest. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and by the end of the season I will be a Pennant fan.

Having thought about what you said about Garcia - I agree your idea for first sub was better than mine

Dont you rate him ?

I like the look of him tbh, he needs to get himself into better positions at the far post when we are attacking from the left...that way he will get amongst the goals, like Gonzalez did on the opposite side against Spurs.
But he was far more positive yesterday and attacked the full back far more often.
He has had a slow start to his Liverpool career, but to be fair his chances are always going to limited with Gerrard playing on the right more often than not.
I am optimistic that he will keep progressing and feel that he is a player with the potential to change games coming on as a substitute.

This is my one and only knock at Pennant

1/ seems to be happy just getting his cross in whether it goes to a Liverpool player or not.

2/ His crosses are flat with nothing on them which makes it easy for the goalkeeper and the defence to deal with.

3/He doesnt beat his man enough but crosses around him, just getting the ball in the box is not what its about, getting the right ball in the box at the right time is what counts.

4/His passing is poor, shows no intelligence and no appreciation of how to make a pass at the right speed and time.

5/ He needs to start coming into the box when the ball is on the other side rather than staying wide ALL the time.

6/For a winger who's whole game is based on how many crosses he makes, he makes too many poor ones.

7/Has not established a good understanding with Finnan (early days yet) and Finnan is making a lot of good runs for nothing.

8/ If he wants to know how to cross a ball he only needs to look at Finnan and Aurellio who both get whip, curl, pace and timing much better.

9/ I cant remember him playing one through ball into the penalty area (hopefully others can?)

10/He needs to show more ambition to get to the byline, when he does we seem to score! ie last night and against Haifa.

Hopefully I am wrong but I am happy to wait till end of the season before saying "I told you so, or oopps I was wrong".

by **Big Niall** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm

I think Rafa is being extremely stupid for changing the team every game.

I know some people think that he is beyond criticism but not having a settled side is a huge negative.

How often does Wenger rest Henry?

by **onizukaeikichi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:04 pm

Finnan was great, he actually beat the left back and cross to Peter for the superb overhead finish. Pennant should learn from Finnan, i just wish Finnan have pace, ooh.. wonderful, he will be a mile better than Pennant right now. Credits for Pennant though for finding Garcia for the 2nd but overall not statisfactory yet but i am glad he had started to dribble more often

by **red37** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:10 pm

good article on sissoko in the post. for me i agree entirely with this. it is one of the most important signings we have had in years.

Pointing out Momo's fault drove me to drinkSep 28 2006

Red Watch by Andy Proudfoot, Daily Post

SAY what you like about 12.45pm kick-offs, but they do give you longer in the pub afterwards.

Not to imbibe ridiculous amounts of alcohol you understand, but to pore over the minutiae of the match just seen, single out successes and failures, and generally put the Liverpool world to rights while watching the scores come in from other games, interesting only for their impact on the Reds' league placing.

There's no better forum for pontificating on the pros and cons of rotation, our ideal forward combination and whether Igor Biscan really did play for Liverpool or did we just dream it?

Now I confess that I have been known to offer an opinion to anyone who'll listen, which probably explains why I write this column; and of course I expect these pearls of wisdom to be eagerly digested and greeted by sage nods, indicating once again that I've put my finger on the button, hit the nail on the head and pinned the tail on the donkey.

So imagine my surprise when, having spent several minutes eulogising the performance of Momo Sissoko on Saturday, one of my mates offered the unwanted opinion that he "couldn't pass".

Momentarily stunned by this lack of respect, I spluttered that this was akin to criticising Michelangelo for not washing his brushes, or Paula Ratcliffe because she 'runs funny'.

Sure, Momo isn't going to rival Xabi Alonso in the 50-yard passing stakes, or even Jamie Redknapp for that matter (yes I do know he couldn't tackle).

But this is not what he's there to do.

For me, Momo has been the biggest single reason for us shifting up a gear in the last 12 months.

Pinched from under the nose of David Moyes, he took to the Premiership instantly, his boundless energy strengthening our resilience and denying midfield opponents time on the ball to pick out marauding forwards.

As Luis Garcia said last year, he gives Xabi time to 'manage the game' and Stevie G the confidence to pile forward knowing there won't be huge gaps behind him if he loses the ball.

Granted, he won't win too many points for presentation, his leggy style reminding you of an octopus falling out of a tree, but his amazing range and combative tackling make everybody else's job so much easier.

All he needs to do is add a few goals to his repertoire, and slim down his collection of yellow cards, and we'll have an international star on our hands.

Get your bets on now for Footballer of the Year.

(btw steven gerrard doesnt need rafa to show him any video from last night, mr souness) the lad knows the team comes first.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:21 pm

I think most of your points are valid and well made Saint.

The only thing i could respond with is the fact that he needs a bit more time, he seems a little bit scared of making a mistake so just crosses the ball at the first opportunity, that is a bit frustrating at times.
But last night there was alot of improvement, he was running at his man alot more and obviously produced the cross for Luis's goal.
I think you were a bit harsh about his crossing, i think he puts over a decent cross with plenty of whip and pace the majority of the time, its just that he sends over too many, and from positions where there are better options.
The understanding with Finnan will come, they are both intelligent footballers and if they play together a bit more i am sure they will be a big threat down that side.

by **alessandromagno** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:44 pm

What was worrying for me was that Rafa obviously picked last night's team to score goals and win. Of course they did that--but when they were 3-0 up and the foot came off the accelerator, Gala realised we were soft at the back. I don't think they would have got those goals if Hyppia and Momo had been on from the start. Would we still have been 3-0 up? Maybe not, but I think we would have won more comfortably and without the last minute panic.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:28 pm

First off, full credit to Galatasaray for not letting their heads drop at 3-0 and for clawing their way back into the game. How many teams come to Anfield, go behind and basically write the match off as done and dusted? The Turks didn't and that's why it was such a close-run thing at the end.

As for our self-inflicted troubles, I agree with Ace that the Sissoko for Garcia substitution would have made the most sense at 3-0 up. The warning signs had been there since the first half: all of Gala's threat was coming down our left flank--both because their RM was a superb crosser of the ball but also because Garcia was not tracking back, leaving Aurelio well exposed. In that regard, I understand why Gonzales was brought on--to shore things up on that flank.

By that point, however, we were losing a lot of possession in the midfield and the Turks were able to spread the play out to that flank with relative ease. Momo would have helped Alonso firm things up, pressure their midfielders and hurry their passing rhythm. I'm not faulting Stevie, per se. He was carrying us forward well and he clearly was hungry to get on the score sheet. But, with Garcia spending most of his time upfield too, Alonso needed help plugging gaps in the middle.

What this match highlighted is that we finally have a team with amazing attacking flair which can hurt opponents in many different ways. What we've not yet ironed out--as Sabre points out--is how to provide the back four with adequate protection in the middle of the park when we play an attacking style that often sees 4-5 players occupying advanced positions.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:41 pm

At 3-0 up we were chasing the game for no reason, unwise tactical play, most notably by Gerrard and Aurelio nearly cost us 2 points. Gerrard drives forward too often and that is why Rafa prefers playing Sissoko and Alonso in the centre, 2 players who are much more disciplined positional wise.

Your central midfielders should be good defenders who can read the game and have tactical nouse, when Gerrard plays in the centre we look more likely to leak goals.

by **CardinalRed** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:31 pm

Did anyone pick up on what Graeme Souness said on Sky after the game? He said that Rafa could show the team a video of that game and then say to Stevie G..... "that's why I play you on the right" Souness mentioned the balance like Rafa does time and again..... Galatasary ain't a bad side but they are by no means the best.... A top top team would have punished us severely, we are left too exposed by the cavalier way Stevie and Xabi like to go forward, it's great to watch but when it starts to go wrong, boy does it go wrong! What price a different formation (the line up change is a given) in Istanbul? It don't take a genius to see that they will try and pummel us with those crosses from minute one....

:cool:

by **stmichael** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:51 am

Of course we missed him. Watch the second half of the game again. Thats why Steven Gerrard rarely plays in the middle for Liverppol these days. He can and probably will play in there with Xabi against the so called "lesser sides" at Anfield like he did last season at times but thats it. Far too open with him in a midfield 2 if your up against top quality.

Is Steve G one of the most talented midfielders in the Prem? Yes.

Is he most effective in the middle? No.

He leaves too many holes in there with his surges forward. And the best way Rafa has found too accomadate him and his talents is to play him wide right. Where he can get himself in the game but not comprimise the team (and in particular our defence) around him.

Sissoko is ideal and will be straight back in the team agaisnt such a physical side as Bolton tomorrow.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:18 am

Doesn't anyone else think that Stevie played that far forward because thats what he has been used to the last few months ?
I think he could play in a midfield pairing in the centre no problem if he was instructed to be more aware of when he can push on, it would restrict his game but he could do it no problem.
Its just a case that he has been allowed the freedom to do as he pleases for a long time now, so he forgot the basics.....like positioning and protecting the back 4.
Just my take on it.

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