Liverpool FC Forum

by **craig da Toxteth iron** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:16 pm

I would preferre him to play in the centre of midfield. But he got PFA player of the year & scored 24 goals for us last season by Playing in his unpreferred position.If Gerrard can score 24 goals & gets PFA player of the year playing on the right, I'm sure he can do the same for us on the left hand side.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:31 pm

What bright spark decided to bump this?

Im an

when Im

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:35 pm

RedorDead wrote:It is a real conundrum for Rafa as to how to play his central midfielders and a task i don't envy him. The fact is that individually Xabi, Momo and Gerrard are all very different players who work in different ways together.
On paper the "best" two players would be Xabi and Gerrard but then you lose the bite and defensive qualities of Momo, essential ingredients in any successful premiership team. OK so you have to play Momo but who with? Do you drop either of your two most influential players?
The answer that Rafa has obviously come up with is "No" and so you play them both. Xabi and Momo work best together in the middle, that has been proven and also Xabi is less versatile and couldn't play wide like Gerrard and so you are left wirth Gerrard out on the wing.
What else can you do? Change the formation, play Gerrard behind a lone striker? Put three in the middle? No, the team works as a 4-4-2 and so it shall remain.
For me Gerrard is the best central midfielder in the world, including Xabi. I don't think that Xabi is a much better passer and I certainly don't think he tackles and defends better than Gerrard, Gerrard is a more complete midfielder without doubt BUT in the context of our squad and formation and the tactics employed by our esteemed manager the only place for Gerrard is on the right side.
Short of buying new players to fit around him it isn't going to change unless injuries dictate otherwise, I just hope that Gerrard is happy with this as we need him focused and playing his best if we are get back up to the top of the league where we belong.

I'll back up what you said here by making the comparison with say, Roy Keane at his peak when he was at Man United.

Put it this way, had Keane played in a team with Alonso and Sissoko and not Giggs, Beckham and Scholes then I think his role would have been different and more attacking.

Gerrard is a better attacking player than Keane ever was with a bit more pace and a better shot and has more ability and often a player's position is shaped by what's around him.

Gerrard has 2 really good holding central players in his team of choice so he attacks from wide areas. Keane was the only one in United's great midfield (and it was great) who could tackle so he defended.

In many ways, this free role suits Gerrard down to the ground, similar to how Matt Le Tissier played at Southampton.

It's about winning games and great players do what's needed to make that happen.

by **Raiden Warr** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:02 pm

I believe BB and Lando make valid points and the truth is that Xabi and Stevie are two different types of players. It is like comparing a striker with a central defender. You don't expect a central defender to pop up with twenty goals a season do you. When Xabi plays with Stevie G it means Stevie G is able to go forward and attack and relegate more of his defensive duties to Xabi. The defensive Midfield role is one that is not appreciated but it is a very important role and you need a skilled disciplined and extremely intelligent player to play there. It is not just about tackling. You also need to have excellent ball control skills, read the game, hold the ball and initiate the attack, create the pass, protect the back four and you also need to have excellent long range passing and shooting abilities because although a striker and attacking midfield can be in the box the DM should not be. Real Madrid sold their the top Defensive Midfielders and have never recovered. ie Makelele and Cambiasso. When they had them they could not lose for trying. Even with the most highly attacking midfielders and strikers they have yet to win any thing for three years. When England play Stevie G and Lampard in the middle they are ineffective together because both are essentially attacking midfielders. Stevie G is alround a better player than Lampard (he can tackle and fat frank cannot) so they make him the DM. Then because he is behind Lampard they lose his creativity and shooting skills. In LFC that role is left to Xabi who pops up occasionally with a beauty. Which means Stevie G can roam all around the pitch doing what he loves best eg terrorising defences and scoring goals.

by **murphy0151** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:48 pm

Ciggy wrote:Gettin a bit sick of it if Im honest.
On the Right, in midfield,
Onthe left.
In the CL as RB........

Steven Gerrard has p.issed hundreds off with his antics, NOTW, HELLO and his Persil ads.
But Rafa is p.issing me more off by not getting the best out of him.

Oi listen he is the best midfielder to ever come from Liverpool, he is a world class player, mbeing totally played out of position for cluband country.
24 goals he scored for LFC last season now he has been shipped to the left.
Rafa said its his Ronaldino roll, maybe he wants it to be that?
I am feckin sick and tired of our best player being used as a spare part.
Yes I am a iverpool fan but players like Gerrard cost 30 mill, and we havent got that.
So why the feck is our best player playing in every position that he doesnt know.

Yer Rafa is a genious if it comes of, but I think he is being foolish where Gerrard is concerned.

Ciggy some off your posts off late have been completely shocking. Honestly id put a sock in luv.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:01 pm

Ciggy wrote:Gettin a bit sick of it if Im honest.
On the Right, in midfield,
Onthe left.
In the CL as RB........

Steven Gerrard has p.issed hundreds off with his antics, NOTW, HELLO and his Persil ads.
But Rafa is p.issing me more off by not getting the best out of him.

Oi listen he is the best midfielder to ever come from Liverpool, he is a world class player, mbeing totally played out of position for cluband country.
24 goals he scored for LFC last season now he has been shipped to the left.
Rafa said its his Ronaldino roll, maybe he wants it to be that?
I am feckin sick and tired of our best player being used as a spare part.
Yes I am a iverpool fan but players like Gerrard cost 30 mill, and we havent got that.
So why the feck is our best player playing in every position that he doesnt know.

Yer Rafa is a genious if it comes of, but I think he is being foolish where Gerrard is concerned.

Your forgetting that the 23 goals he scored last season came from him being played out of position on the right. The point is he doesn't need to be in his ideal position (if he has one??) to contribute to, and influence, the team.

As long as Liverpool win and Gerrard is being the same massive influence to the team, who cares?

by **Garymac** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:06 pm

Hello Everyone

Just thought id come on and throw my two bobs worth in here.

Rafa says he wants whats best for the team, not for the player but surely gerrard in the middle is best for the team, watching the game last night we played with 2 holding players with gerrard on the right but licence to move around, but we didnt play with 2 holding players, Momo was given the role to get forward and support the attack taking away his natural game, he is willing enough to get forward buts not going to create or or score a goal.

Where as the best attacking midfielder in the country was given the job on the right hand side and often in the 1st half Momo, Xabi and Gerrard were getting in each others way and there would be no width on the right. I Just think at home Xabi and Momo in the same team is pointless if you are going to give one of them the role to attack, surely if your going to play someone in the middle with the freedom to attack it has to be Gerrard and not Momo.

In my opinion, without doubt at home we just need one of Momo/Xabi alongside Gerrard bombing forward from center mid, OK he does a grand job anywhere but in the center pushing forward is where Gerrard can take the game by the scruff of the neck, something i really miss seeing him do.

To be honest i dont think it was fair on Momo, he struggled because there was an emphasis on him to be creator and hes not got that in his locker yet, its like Chelsea putting Makelele in Lampards role, unthinkable in my eyes. Momo is great at what he does and shouldnt be pressured just yet to do things that arnt natural to him.

Gerrard does a great job on the right but i think he should only fill in there, he should be 1st choice in the middle in my opinion.

by **murphy0151** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Garymac wrote:Hello Everyone

Just thought id come on and throw my two bobs worth in here.

Rafa says he wants whats best for the team, not for the player but surely gerrard in the middle is best for the team, watching the game last night we played with 2 holding players with gerrard on the right but licence to move around, but we didnt play with 2 holding players, Momo was given the role to get forward and support the attack taking away his natural game, he is willing enough to get forward buts not going to create or or score a goal.

Where as the best attacking midfielder in the country was given the job on the right hand side and often in the 1st half Momo, Xabi and Gerrard were getting in each others way and there would be no width on the right. I Just think at home Xabi and Momo in the same team is pointless if you are going to give one of them the role to attack, surely if your going to play someone in the middle with the freedom to attack it has to be Gerrard and not Momo.

In my opinion, without doubt at home we just need one of Momo/Xabi alongside Gerrard bombing forward from center mid, OK he does a grand job anywhere but in the center pushing forward is where Gerrard can take the game by the scruff of the neck, something i really miss seeing him do.

To be honest i dont think it was fair on Momo, he struggled because there was an emphasis on him to be creator and hes not got that in his locker yet, its like Chelsea putting Makelele in Lampards role, unthinkable in my eyes. Momo is great at what he does and shouldnt be pressured just yet to do things that arnt natural to him.

Gerrard does a great job on the right but i think he should only fill in there, he should be 1st choice in the middle in my opinion.

yes but who are you?

by **woof woof !** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:19 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
RAGE UK wrote:Steve Gerrard is getting very very thrustrated playing wide you can see it in his face.
He is a better midfielder then momo and xabi I see momo playing more centre then Gerrard that’s not right.
he will begin to fell as if he is getting pushed out of his position where he likes to play and in the middle he shines playing wide he dose not work it out for yourselves.
Please don’t jump on me I’m in no way saying that momo amd xabi are not good because I know they are ok.
I’m just stating that given 1 player out of the 3 you want on the pitch playing at his best and you know as well as I do Gerrard will win every time .

He's a better midfielder than Xabi?

Can he pass as well? No.

Can he tackle as well? No.

Does he have the same vision? No.

The three key elements of a midfielder.

Gerrard is a better attacker than Xabi, but you can't justifiably say he's a better "midfielder". Attcking midfielder - yes. Defensive mid? Not a chance.

Lando I luv most of the shi'ite you spout bit this is a barrow load of Tripe .

My take is

Can Gerrard pass as well as Alonso ?

Yes he f'ucking can and he can do it from any area of the pitch , (remembering that he's played in almost all of them ! )

Can he tackle as well ?

He can tackle even better ! I don't see Alonso being drafted in at right back . Maybe you forget that for many years Gerrard was viewed as a defensive midfielder who could unleash the odd scorcher when in range of goal .

Does he have the same vision

I'd put him on a par with Alonso , especially if he has the luxury (like Alonso ) of sitting back and watching the play unfold in front of him .

You can't say he's a better midfielder .

Yes I can , and I just did

No disrespect to you or Alonso but the mere fact that some people now rate Alonso's midfield ability above Gerrards is (imo) a testament to how Gerrards worth is being undermined by his constant change of position .

Gerrards inherent talent and constant change of position has tagged him as the best utility player you could hope to find and in the process diluted what he has to offer in (by his own admission) his preferred position in the middle of the park . Gerrard imo is the best CM in the world , pity Rafa doesn't allow him to play there .

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:23 pm

murphy0151 wrote: Honestly id put a sock in luv.

I said I was p.issed didnt I?
I even asked for the topic to be deleted.

by **PabloAimar** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:07 pm

*bump*

by **onizukaeikichi** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:10 pm

he has said after the newcastle game that rafa can put him any where he wants as long as we win games, of course he says he prefers his central position of all. I agree with him as long as rafa dont put him at some really weird position then i am fine as long as we can win.

by **woof woof !** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:22 pm

onizukaeikichi wrote:he has said after the newcastle game that rafa can put him any where he wants as long as we win games, of course he says he prefers his central position of all. I agree with him as long as rafa dont put him at some really weird position then i am fine as long as we can win.

Tell you what mate , despite what you've read or seen on TV ,the way he's being used, if Gerrard only had a year left on his contract, I wouldn't be suprised if he called it quits at LFC .

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:01 pm

Sorry wrong thread

by **Sabre** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:20 pm

Garymac, it's been a while!

So, I'll answer "Lando's 4"

He's a better midfielder than Xabi?

I cannot compare them, they're so different. As a defensive midfielder I'd put Xabi, as he reads better the game, and he has good positioning. As an attacking midfielder I'd put Gerrard. Gerrard is more complete than Xabi is, he probably would be better than ALonso in every position but the one that Alonso is currently in, and perhaps in the goalie position , as we Basques like to be goalies

. Not every midfielder can play out wide as Gerrard can, that speaks well of how complete he is. He even could be a good striker.

Can he pass as well? No.

Xabi's long pass is better than Gerrards', you can ask Pennant or Riise which ball is easier to control. Gerrard though, has a great passing too and a better quick passing. He can be in the att midfielder position and make a quick combination at first touch. Xabi doesn't know doing that, he needs a couple of touches. Gerrard is a better dribbler, Alonso hardly dribbles. He skips most players by "cutting" (switching all his body towards another direction) but he hasn't the waist nor the legs to be a great dribbler.

Can he tackle as well?

No. Gerrard tackles better than Alonso, but Alonso is in the correct place to tackle always

. In those balls that come from goal kick, I like the way Alonso jumps for the ball and heads it in the direction of another mate.

Does he have the same vision?

Gerrard has great vision, you cannot pass the ball accurately and at first touch making a goal pass to the striker if you haven't it. Xabi's vision is better as in he reads the game better, knows when it is appropiate to slow down or make a direct pass. Gerrard's hunger in the pitch sometimes makes him taking not the best decission.

So I cannot compare them. They're so different, and we're so lucky to have'em both.

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