Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:52 am

woof woof ! wrote:
john craig wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:I'm not a big fan of Sven but would somebody remind me of how many competitive games England have lost since he took over .?

Not many, mind you losing at Windsor Park to a lower league select team was quite embarrassing

Without looking up the stats, he's probably lost only 3 or 4 competitive games, but it's the amount of draws that should have been wins

Svens record in competative games up to and including Ecuador game

P 37 W26 D8 L3

Shocking

Considering most of those games were qualification games for Euro Championship/ World Cup it is worth pointing out that England have hardly been grouped with difficult teams in recent times. You can discount the friendlies all you want woof, but don't tell me that as an Englishman you weren't utterly embarrassed when Australia beat you 3-1 and played you off the park a few years back. Due to the lack of competitive International games, the friendlies are still significant sometimes.

Also with the players England have got, they should be looking to do better in the actual big tournaments when they come around. Sven's good record in competitive games is a testament to the good set of players he has and in spite of him and his baffling decisions.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:24 am

Svens record including friendlies .

P 66 W 40 D 16 L 10

As I said earlier ,I'm not actually a fan of Sven's but some of the criticism he receives is not always justified .His record as a manager is up there with the very best .

by **babu** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:50 am

Wow his record is much better than i would have thought. Doesn't take away from the fact that he inspires zero confidence (in me anyway).

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:24 am

With the talent that hold English Passports, I would expect Svens record to be exactly as it is. For Fook sake, Graham Taylor could have got those sort of results with the players we have.

The problem is Sven hasn't got a scooby doo, we should have won all the games we have played but his incompetence in both squad selection, team selecttion and tactics have meant we have crawled into the next round, rather than roar in like the 3 lions on our shirt!

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:27 am

woof woof ! wrote:Svens record including friendlies .

P 66 W 40 D 16 L 10

As I said earlier ,I'm not actually a fan of Sven's but some of the criticism he receives is not always justified .His record as a manager is up there with the very best .

I know his record looks good on paper woof, and I've played devil's advocate myself in the past defending him as you are doing now, but let's be honest, England have one of the best, if not the best, sets of players they've had and yet the football they play is dire and they've done poorly in major tournaments. That says a lot more than Sven's won-loss record.

by **stmichael** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:52 am

woof woof ! wrote:Not being a tactical genius ,the thing that really puzzels me is why are we (England) always changing our formation to cope with the other team ?

nail on head.

i've said it before, sven is a reactionary manager. basically he adjusts his tactics to what the other team are doing rather than letting the opposition worry about us.

i find it staggering that teams like germany and argentina have a settled side and formation, whilst four games into the world cup, we're still f#cking around with personnel and formations. yes i know you can't compensate for injuries, but if sven had done his job and picked a half decent squad in the first place, we wouldn't be having this argument.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:58 pm

john craig wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Svens record including friendlies .

P 66 W 40 D 16 L 10

As I said earlier ,I'm not actually a fan of Sven's but some of the criticism he receives is not always justified .His record as a manager is up there with the very best .

I know his record looks good on paper woof, and I've played devil's advocate myself in the past defending him as you are doing now, but let's be honest, England have one of the best, if not the best, sets of players they've had and yet the football they play is dire and they've done poorly in major tournaments. That says a lot more than Sven's won-loss record.

.

Certainly agree with your observation that England have played some dire football under Sven ,despite the impressive (on paper) record. Perhaps the players aren't as good as we think they are ? .Or maybe we fans would prefer to see our players really going for it ala Mexico v Argentina , even if it means we get knocked out .

So far in the world cup the only England players who have won my admiration are Joe Cole and Rooney .They at least look as though they're not scared of making a mistake and are giving it a real go .All the others seem to be playing safety first football therefore stifeling what creativity they may posses.

Just to move the discussion on a bit further JC ,the really frightening thing is that McLaren is taking over from Sven :wwww

.Will things be any better ? :laugh:

by **clik** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:19 pm

lennon is raw at the highest level which would take most sides by surprise but at top level lennons final ball could be better, but to keep Beckham in side just for set pieces is wrong have we not got another great set piece player in our own super stevie if i had to choose id opt for Lennon

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:01 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Just to move the discussion on a bit further JC ,the really frightening thing is that McLaren is taking over from Sven .Will things be any better ?

Best not go there I think :laugh:

What I will say is that we'll pretty much know within 5 minutes of MacLaren taking over whether or not he's going to take England forward. If he bins Beckham as captain then he will be on the right track, if not then a lot of the same problems England have now will remain. It's not all to do with Beckham, but that's a big part of it imo.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:38 pm

I was a bit surprised the other night when Beckham came off, that he gave the captains arm band to J Terry not Gerrard. Maybe Sven had already decided that Gerrard was going to come off in the 90th min

I have no problem with Terry as next captain I just think that the captaincy might give Gerrard the confidence and authority to impose himself on the game more. (Tell Fat Frank to get out the fkn way)

by **woof woof !** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:05 pm

s@int wrote:I was a bit surprised the other night when Beckham came off, that he gave the captains arm band to J Terry not Gerrard.

The very same thought crossed my mind BUT does Stevie really need a captains armband to enable him to impose himself ? I hope not .

Must admit (along with the rest of the team) he's been a disappointment so far . He hasn't imposed himself and we can't continue to blame the manager or Fat Frank for Stevies at best average performance. This is the stage where TOP players take control and make others dance to their tune . Look at the likes of Rooney and Joe Cole , they are not waiting to be invited to "turn it on" . C'mon Stevie , f'uck the game plan , stop playing the responsible second fiddle to Fat Frank , get in there !

by **JC_81** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:25 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
s@int wrote:I was a bit surprised the other night when Beckham came off, that he gave the captains arm band to J Terry not Gerrard.

The very same thought crossed my mind BUT does Stevie really need a captains armband to enable him to impose himself ? I hope not .

Must admit (along with the rest of the team) he's been a disappointment so far . He hasn't imposed himself and we can't continue to blame the manager or Fat Frank for Stevies at best average performance. This is the stage where TOP players take control and make others dance to their tune . Look at the likes of Rooney and Joe Cole , they are not waiting to be invited to "turn it on" . C'mon Stevie , f'uck the game plan , stop playing the responsible second fiddle to Fat Frank , get in there !

The thing with Gerrard is people forget he has just played an entire season at right midfield, then he is expected to slot back into centre mid and be just as effective as he was there say a year ago? I think that's unrealistic.

On top of that I'm not going to go into how he has to carry Lampard's workload and hold the midfield together while fat kunt hits row z because it has been done to death.

The last point is to do with Gerrard's character. We all know he likes to be the main man and at Liverpool the team is built around him, but for England this is not so. I honestly believe the only way England will get as much out of Gerrard as we do is to give him the captaincy, for all his brilliance Gerrard seems quite an insecure guy deep down (as proven if you read the ins and outs of his transfer sagas the last 2 summers). Make him captain and he will feel more important to the team (can't imagine he enjoys his role for England right now) and like he HAS to take responsibility. That's my take on it anyway.

by **2520years** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:59 pm

My opinion's that Sven is very influenced by the media. As Terry is their choice for the next captain, he's also Sven's vice-captain. Plus, in Sven's mind Gerrard could be dropped more easily than Terry. I guess that doesn't matter too much as he's leaving.

I agree Gerrard would relish being captain, but I can't see it happening. I expect Terry to be captain after the World Cup, but maybe McLaren will prove me wrong.

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm

2520years wrote:My opinion's that Sven is very influenced by the media.

disagree with that. i just don't think the guy knows his ar$e from his elbow.

by **davo_LFC** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:36 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
s@int wrote:I was a bit surprised the other night when Beckham came off, that he gave the captains arm band to J Terry not Gerrard.

The very same thought crossed my mind BUT does Stevie really need a captains armband to enable him to impose himself ? I hope not .

Must admit (along with the rest of the team) he's been a disappointment so far . He hasn't imposed himself and we can't continue to blame the manager or Fat Frank for Stevies at best average performance. This is the stage where TOP players take control and make others dance to their tune . Look at the likes of Rooney and Joe Cole , they are not waiting to be invited to "turn it on" . C'mon Stevie , f'uck the game plan , stop playing the responsible second fiddle to Fat Frank , get in there !

I read an article in the echo a few weeks ago and it was encouraging gerrard to put beckham in his place with a few strong words, this is what he usually does at liverpool to the likes of garcia when they are losing the ball constantly. It said that he was biting his tongue at this moment in time. He is a midfield general and if he had the england captaincy(which i think he deserves because he is the best captain in the squad IMO)he would impose himself alot more on the rest of the team.

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