Liverpool FC Forum

by **mitch22** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:06 pm

A question raised to me, Would you drop Becks

All he seems to do is cross a ball or take free kicks of which he hasnt scored for England in 3 yrs. He cant beat a man tackle or head. A position Lennon could easily fit into .

On the other hand does his captaincy ,celebrity status make this a decision that would cause so much controversy.

by **PhiLFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Yeah drop the useless waster... if he can't get the ball to Crouch's head then his "best passer in the world" tag is redundant

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:15 pm

If you look at the first 2 games in this years world cup, the first goal came from a David Beckham free kick, and in the 2nd game he placed a perfect pass to Crouch for his headed goal.

He is still the best player in the world from a deadball situation.

Ok he wasn't as good as usual against Sweden but neither where John Terry, Jamie Carragher, Frank Lumpard and Ashley Cole.

I think Lennon is a great player but I still think he will be used better coming off the bench to change a game. Give Beckham a break, one man doesn't make a team and at the moment the whole team is not playing particulary well.

by **2520years** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:26 pm

I'd keep him. I think people expect him to be the best player on the park every game, which is unfair. I think opponents would rather we dropped him, if only for the fact that he regularly creates and scores goals!

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:47 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:If you look at the first 2 games in this years world cup, the first goal came from a David Beckham free kick, and in the 2nd game he placed a perfect pass to Crouch for his headed goal.

He is still the best player in the world from a deadball situation.

Ok he wasn't as good as usual against Sweden but neither where John Terry, Jamie Carragher, Frank Lumpard and Ashley Cole.

I think Lennon is a great player but I still think he will be used better coming off the bench to change a game. Give Beckham a break, one man doesn't make a team and at the moment the whole team is not playing particulary well.

Spot on.

Beckham hasn't been setting the tournament alight but he has produced two balls that have led to the winning goals in the first two games. Lennon's a great impact player but I don't think he's ready yet for 90 minutes at the World Cup in a knock-out game.

by **Sabre** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:22 pm

No. Excellent set pieces (although I know the stats with England aren't good lately) and gives some pause to the English game. I think he must be the right midfielder.

Note that coming from Manchester and going to Real Madrid, he hasn't my support precisely, but he convinced me in the Liga. England just needs Gerrard in his place, and some link, perhaps Carrick on front of defence. If you have to drop Lampard for that, do so.

Ah, I was wondering, erm, *cough* playing with a single striker would go under the English law?

I just ask it for discussion. Don't you think that a midfield with Carrick on front of the defence, and Gerrard and Lampard on front of him MIGHT work?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:36 pm

Drop him. He has taken virtually every free kick England have had for years and even Fat Frank would have scored more. His running to take freekicks on the opposite side of the pitch is an embarassment to the rest of the players.Last night he even took a throw in on the left, is he now going to claim all of those as well? His delivery (much vaunted by some) has been poor he can no longer cross the ball consistantly(he could never beat a fullback) he is moving inside all the time and his Captaincy is a joke. If I took every freekick for England I am sure I would get lucky once or twice in 3 years.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:56 pm

s@int wrote:Last night he even took a throw in on the left, is he now going to claim all of those as well?

Noticed that as well, mate. I assumed he wanted the ball played right back to him so he could cross it into the box. Got closed down awfully quickly, though!

Still, I think you're being a bit harsh. Last night was perhaps his poorest of the three games but he still delivers some important balls...yes, even from open play. He played a tricky ball to Rooney last night that almost produced a goal. Granted, most of that would have been down to Rooney's brilliance but the ball was sound nonetheless.

I'd drop Lampard before Beckham (yes, you heard me Oasis...settle down!

), as at least Becks has helped set up a couple of goals so far.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:07 pm

Bad Bob where did he deliver the great ball to Rooney from - the centre of the field . Where was he when J.Cole centred from the RIGHT for Gerrards goal? Law of averages suggest Lampards gotta score soon with the number of shots hes had already.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:28 pm

s@int wrote:Bad Bob where did he deliver the great ball to Rooney from - the centre of the field . Where was he when J.Cole centred from the RIGHT for Gerrards goal? Law of averages suggest Lampards gotta score soon with the number of shots hes had already.

Agreed, he played the ball for Rooney from the centre of the park. On the Gerrard goal, however, he was exactly where he was supposed to be: running from the right in behind Crouch in case the big man played a nice flick on from Robinson's goal kick. As it turned out, Crouch headed back to Cole who pushed the ball right in order to chip it across to Gerrard on the left.

check it out here

Point is, Beckham was exactly where he was supposed to be on that goal. If anyone was 'out of position' it was Joe Cole but no one's complaining when he cuts infield are they?

For the record (God this sounds like the Lampard debate all over again), I agree that Beckham's past his best but he's not the reason why England aren't firing on all cylinders at the moment so let's not put it all on his shoulders. I'd argue he's justified his selection in the side and should stay in the starting line-up, with Lennon coming on late to change games if need be.

Believe me, you bench him and you'll miss his crossing and set-piece deliveries which, even if they are what he primarily offers the team, are not to be dismissed so readily.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:41 pm

The point I was trying to make about Beckhams freekicks is there is no imagination, no surprises, and that he hasnt scored from one for three years. Opposition teams know exactly what to expect, we dont even have players running over the ball anymore because they know and we know who will take the kick. They can set up their defense with confidence KNOWING exactly what the threat will be. Sometimes we still score (most teams score the odd goal from freekicks) but because our freekicks are so predictable most times they are easily defended. His crossing again has become less and less of a threat as teams realise that if Beckham has the ball he cant beat a player so is only options are to cross it from wherever he is (usually too deep) or pass it backwards.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:59 pm

s@int wrote:The point I was trying to make about Beckhams freekicks is there is no imagination, no surprises, and that he hasnt scored from one for three years. Opposition teams know exactly what to expect, we dont even have players running over the ball anymore because they know and we know who will take the kick. They can set up their defense with confidence KNOWING exactly what the threat will be. Sometimes we still score (most teams score the odd goal from freekicks) but because our freekicks are so predictable most times they are easily defended. His crossing again has become less and less of a threat as teams realise that if Beckham has the ball he cant beat a player so is only options are to cross it from wherever he is (usually too deep) or pass it backwards.

Alright Saint, two questions for you...

1) Who would you bring in to replace Beckham and why (what formation too)?

2) Who would you have taking free kicks with Becks on the bench and why?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:02 pm

Sorry I was interrupted in mid rant then. His defending at corners was also heavily critisised by Alan Hansen/Shearer/Dixon last night.(dont suppose you get match of the day over there do you?)He is the front marker at corners and the clips they used showed he has no idea how to do the job(maybe thats Svens problem not his tho')The injury to M.Owen may save his place, as they may now drop Hargreaves and move Beckham to central midfield and bring Lennon in on the right, with Stevie as support striker for Rooney.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:10 pm

I would probably play Gerrard on the right as he does for Liverpool if I was in charge with Lennon used as an impact player. Gerrard can deliver a good cross and can share responsibility for freekicks with Lampard/J.Cole/Rooney ie no SET freekick taker.This would enable more imaginative plays and at least the opposition wouldnt Know in advance what to expect. Midfield 4 Gerrard, Lampard ,Carrick or Hargreaves, Cole

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:43 pm

s@int wrote:Sorry I was interrupted in mid rant then. His defending at corners was also heavily critisised by Alan Hansen/Shearer/Dixon last night.(dont suppose you get match of the day over there do you?)He is the front marker at corners and the clips they used showed he has no idea how to do the job(maybe thats Svens problem not his tho')The injury to M.Owen may save his place, as they may now drop Hargreaves and move Beckham to central midfield and bring Lennon in on the right, with Stevie as support striker for Rooney.

Nope, no MOTD over here but I am aware of the criticism about defending corners. Fair enough, I think, but the whole team needs criticism for their set piece defending second half.

As for Beckham's predictability on set pieces, I agree to a point but he can still cause problems. Perhaps mixing it up a little by letting Lampard take the odd free kick would be alright. I wouldn't want Stevie taking these though...he's needed more to get on the end of them!

Incidently, this is where England suffers by not having a left-footed midfielder in the starting line-up. Sometimes the angle is just not there for a right-footer but Beckham takes them anyway.

I don't disagree, Saint, that Beckham's got less in his locker than he used to but I think he's still bringing something to the team at the moment. The key, I think, is knowing when he's becoming a liability and replacing him with Lennon, an awareness that Sven has not really cultivated, reliant as he is on his captain. Also, it might well be that, had Owen not been injured last night, we might have seen Beckham subbed for Lennon. Owen's injury used up an early sub and with Rooney never going to complete the game, a second sub was needed around the hour mark. The options were further limited when Ferdinand limped off. Had it not been for those injuries, Beckham might have come off sooner. Let's hope, if he's struggling against Ecuador, that Sven does the brave thing and sits him down for the pacier Lennon.

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