Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:14 am

So Werder Bremen play Shakthar Donetsk in the UEFA Cup final. Someone on another forum I go on suggested the winner would become the "second greatest in Europe", except that isn't even close to being true. Why not? Well because three of the four UEFA Cup semi-finalists and BOTH finalists were in the Champions League group stages and only finished third. Hamburg are the only one of the semi-finalists that didn't drop out of the CL into the UEFA Cup.

So how can the winners of the UEFA Cup be the second best in Europe when they weren't even among the best/last sixteen in the Champions League? It's about time UEFA stopped pandering to TV companies and making a mockery of the European competitions. Let's go back to the days when it was straight, two-legged, knock-outs and have only the Champions and maybe runners-up in the European Cup.

Gartside wants to reduce the number of domestic matches with his daft proposition, only to replace those four Premiership games with International friendlies. I can't see the Premiership clubs going for that, why not simply scrap the group stages of European competitions and reduce fixtures that way? As for the old (and in)firm joining the Premiership, I suspect that would require a complete change in protocol. I don't believe there is an "election" system in existence anymore and so to by-pass having to go up through the non-leagues to reach the Premiership, Rangers and Celtic would have to be granted dispensation to join the top flight without X promotions first. Now surely that would require the approval of the majority of EVERY English club in the league and non-league, not just the Premiership elite? Besides anything else having 36 teams in the top two flights would mean demotion/relegation for 8-10 teams or a restructure of leagues one and two to accommodate the extra teams.

Currently (96) : 20 in Premiership, 24 in Championship, 48 in Leagues 1 & 2
Proposed (96+2) : 18 each in Premiership 1 & 2, leaves 60 other teams not including Celtic and Rangers who would boost the total to 98

Oh cleverdick Gartside, all that to bring in SCOTTISH clubs to ENGLISH football and to reduce the top flight so ENGLAND can get together and/or play more football. So what for the excess teams left over from what used to be the Championship? They and the leagues below them have lots more teams and fixtures in them or do TEN league clubs drop down a league, in fact ten league clubs in each league drop down a league. So if it affects everyone, why should only the elite vote on it?

And if Rangers and Celtic join the Premiership, do they have to waive their right to play in the Champions League that season or will the Premiership have SIX teams in the Champions League? (two through SPL, four through England)

It ain't broke, don't fix it. The European Cup and UEFA Cup are broke, fix them.

by **JC_81** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:06 pm

I think that the UEFA/EUROPA cup is fast becoming a pointless competition for Premiership teams. With the Premiership being as strong as it is at the moment, teams like Man City/Villa etc get tougher games in the Premiership than they do in europe (in general of course). These teams will see chasing 4th spot and getting into the CL as a priority over giving their all in the UEFA cup, and don't really have the squads to compete on multiple fronts, therefore you get managers like Martin O'Neill fielding reserve teams in europe in order to climb up the Premiership table.

You could argue that it gives younger English players from these teams good experience of playing against teams of different styles in different leagues. To an extent that's true, but in reality most of these teams (apart from Villa) are packed full of foreigners who have experience of playing in other leagues anyway.

Seville recently won the UEFA cup twice. Did they go on to make an impact in the CL? No. Did Zenit St Petersburg do anything in the CL after winning the UEFA? No. Not since Mourinho's Porto has a team that's won the UEFA gone on to achieve anything in the CL. The UEFA, or whatever they're re-packaging it as, is a nothing competition.

The last time I can remember a decent line up of teams in the UEFA cup was the year we won it (and I'm not being biased). We played Porto, Barcelona and Roma that season who were all strong teams. With the top 3-4 from the best leagues getting into the CL now you just don't get that quality in the UEFA anymore.

If you want to get teams to take the competition more seriously, then the winner should get entry to the CL for the following season. Otherwise there's not an awful lot to play for (for the teams in the top European leagues at least). Had that been the case maybe Villa would have played their best team every round and still been in the competition and maybe Milan would have taken it seriously this year.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:33 pm

john craig wrote:If you want to get teams to take the competition more seriously, then the winner should get entry to the CL for the following season. Otherwise there's not an awful lot to play for (for the teams in the top European leagues at least). Had that been the case maybe Villa would have played their best team every round and still been in the competition and maybe Milan would have taken it seriously this year.

excellent idea, and one that ive advocated for years. I cant beleive the uefa top brass have never thought of doing it, i mean its so simple and would completly invigorate the competition.

by **Greavesie** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:29 pm

they do dont they? isnt that why Zenit were in it this year?

by **JC_81** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:32 pm

Greavesie wrote:they do dont they? isnt that why Zenit were in it this year?

I thought they qualified because they also won their domestic league.

by **Greavesie** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:37 pm

hmm cant remember exactly John mate but I'm sure the last few winners have been in the CL, I'll have a look

by **JC_81** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:39 pm

Greavesie wrote:hmm cant remember exactly John mate but I'm sure the last few winners have been in the CL, I'll have a look

I think they have pal, but just by coincidence.

I'm pretty sure Zenit and Seville before them qualified through league positions. We'd have heard a lot more about it from teams like City and Villa if the UEFA was a route into the CL I reckon.

by **Greavesie** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:40 pm

yeh you're right mate. In that case I agree that the winner should get a place in the CL

it does seem a bit illogical to not give the winner a place

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:07 am

I'd almost be inclined to give the semi-finalists a CL place, a much bigger carrot to the participants and perhaps necessary given the overinflated size of the competition. After the pointless group stage as was, there are still THIRTY-TWO teams left and eight of those are CL dropouts. So a club like villa, everton or spudz might decide they have no certainty of winning the competition and put out weaker sides. Make it the semis that gets you into the CL and they may fancy their chances more of progressing 3-4 rounds and getting into the CL that way than by league position.

The way the CL dropout system is, you'll probably find the winners qualify by league position anyway which further adds to my point above and initially. If 3/4 of the semi-finalists had qualified for the CL then the odds are they would again. But the incentive of CL places for those who qualified for the UEFA Cup reaching the semis might mean they try harder. Personally I'd close the dropouts and restrict it to qualifiers (3rd round) or not at all. I don't see that it does anything to the group stages of the CL except gives poor teams a second chance at Europe because they weren't good enough to take the first one. I bet some of those teams wished they didn't end up in the UEFA Cup.

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:50 pm

I think that is a good idea about CL births for the semis, but I think dropping down the 3rd place teams is important. Most of the teams are not teams that expected to go further and had a disappointing group stages (in which case they probably wished the campaign was over) but qualifying for the CL would be like purgatory for a lot of those smaller teams from smaller countries. It seems unfair to give teams that finished below them a better chance at Euro silverware, and a chance to play in more matches. Plus it gives another reason to watch matchday 6; it would be very rare for all 4 slots to be cemented before the last day.

Although maybe it would make sense to just have those 8 teams compete for the European Shield or something like they do in rugby 7s.

by **ArdaTuran** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Don't Speak English.

Sentence Translation Program

Arda, Europe wants to play in the team announced: Liverpool. This preference of the British team's red color that indicates effective football stars, "both clubs and supporters seated culture. I'd like to play there," he said. 22.12.2009

Honor should hear...

by **woof woof !** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:08 pm

ArdaTuran wrote:Don't Speak English.

Sentence Translation Program

Arda, Europe wants to play in the team announced: Liverpool. This preference of the British team's red color that indicates effective football stars, "both clubs and supporters seated culture. I'd like to play there," he said. 22.12.2009

Honor should hear...

Have you been here before ?

We had a member " Lionheart" , the avatar you're using and two other members with the name "arda turan"

by **ArdaTuran** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:11 pm

Write to the translation program at what was the sentence.I don't Know

Arda is in this press release. Played in Europe wants to see you are as a team. Fanatic as a Galatasaray'lı, Arda to be told that we love. This evening wear jerseys in the cup matches. Arda, the club today up to the most talented players.

If you wear your shirt day too much value to him if

by **dawson99** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:17 am

ArdaTuran wrote:Write to the translation program at what was the sentence.I don't Know

Arda is in this press release. Played in Europe wants to see you are as a team. Fanatic as a Galatasaray'lı, Arda to be told that we love. This evening wear jerseys in the cup matches. Arda, the club today up to the most talented players.

If you wear your shirt day too much value to him if

what?

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Uefa cup final - Aka cl drop-outs cup

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