Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:49 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:There have been plenty of rumours that Sven took Theo to one side after the Paraguay game and asked him to wear the bandage on his calf and have a day off as he had realised what a major mistake he had made with his selection.
Only rumours but the fact that the lad hasnt had 1 minute on the pitch and we are short in that area i think proves they may be accurate.

A few of my Scottish mates are convinced Sven took Walcott just as one final 'up yours' to the FA before he leaves :laugh:

A bit far fetched I think. I think as you say Sven made a rash last minute decision in taking him after not scouting him properly, then realised the kid is nowhere near ready for International football. Quite embarrassing really. The thing is, if there were any doubts at all about Walcott in addition to the fact Owen and Rooney were struggling for fitness, then surely a 5th striker such as Bent/Defoe should have been included at the expense of someone like Jenas who is clearly never going to be used.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:06 pm

john craig wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:There have been plenty of rumours that Sven took Theo to one side after the Paraguay game and asked him to wear the bandage on his calf and have a day off as he had realised what a major mistake he had made with his selection.
Only rumours but the fact that the lad hasnt had 1 minute on the pitch and we are short in that area i think proves they may be accurate.

A few of my Scottish mates are convinced Sven took Walcott just as one final 'up yours' to the FA before he leaves

A bit far fetched I think. I think as you say Sven made a rash last minute decision in taking him after not scouting him properly, then realised the kid is nowhere near ready for International football. Quite embarrassing really. The thing is, if there were any doubts at all about Walcott in addition to the fact Owen and Rooney were struggling for fitness, then surely a 5th striker such as Bent/Defoe should have been included at the expense of someone like Jenas who is clearly never going to be used.

Exactly.

The most annoying thing is the fact that Sven hasnt got the b@lls to say yeah i made a mistake but this is the squad i selected..so be it.
He has said (since the Owen injury) i am happy with the players selected and wouldnt change anything, that is a ridiculously stupid statement.
The argument he has been using is that Joe Cole can play as a fifth striker, but if anyone is honest he has been Englands best performer for about the last 6-8 games so why change his position.
Jenas is the inclusion thats bothering me most, i have never bought into all the hype about him, and he plays in a position were he was never going to get a look in.
Defoe and Bent must be furious and gutted, the inclusion of Walcott was an extra gamble that while i didnt agree with it (who did ?) you could make an excuse.
Through fortune we still may make the semi's but with management like he has shown so far, to get further under Sven will be a miracle.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:12 pm

I'm not a big fan of Sven but would somebody remind me of how many competitive games England have lost since he took over .?

Or is this statement correct
"aside from those crucial defeats by Brazil and Portugal, Eriksson has lost just once in 31 matches, though that solitary setback, a 1-0 reverse at the hands of Northern Ireland in qualifying for Germany 2006, did lead to calls for him to resign in some quarters."

Seems Sven gets slaughtered because .............erm ?

by **JC_81** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:19 pm

woof woof ! wrote:I'm not a big fan of Sven but would somebody remind me of how many competitive games England have lost since he took over .?

Not many, mind you losing at Windsor Park to a lower league select team was quite embarrassing :laugh:

Without looking up the stats, he's probably lost only 3 or 4 competitive games, but it's the amount of draws that should have been wins and sh.it performances that should have been comfortable victories that you also have to consider. Also look at progression in major tournaments thus far. Simply looking at losses in competitive games does not tell the whole story.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:24 pm

john craig wrote:Simply looking at losses in competitive games does not tell the whole story.

Yeah , despite only losing 3 in 31 it's just not good enough , we should have been playing with the flair of Brasil ,the arrogance of France and the guile of Argentina .

by **65-1149024436** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:24 pm

Beckham should be in the England team, as he can win us a game like he did against Ecuador.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:25 pm

Its not the losses we have suffered in the last 2 major tournaments that are my major problem, it was the nature of them.
We were outplayed against Brazil and Portugal in both defeats and couldnt retain posesion at all, we were also diabolical in the second half against France in Euro 2004 again squandering posession all of the time.
A couple of years down the line and what is our major problem again ?
Posession, we cannot keep hold of the ball, we dont pass it sideways and wait for the right oppurtunity to go direct, it is always direct and long balls and thats not just the midfield...the so called classy centre half Rio Ferdinand is chief culprit. If we keep the ball we have half a chance, if you dont have the ball you invite pressure, if teams like Brazil France and Portugal constantly pressure you goals will inevitably follow. And that will be our undoing in this tournament imo.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:33 pm

john craig wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:I'm not a big fan of Sven but would somebody remind me of how many competitive games England have lost since he took over .?

Not many, mind you losing at Windsor Park to a lower league select team was quite embarrassing

Without looking up the stats, he's probably lost only 3 or 4 competitive games, but it's the amount of draws that should have been wins

Svens record in competative games up to and including Ecuador game

P 37 W26 D8 L3

Shocking :wwww

by **dawson99** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:47 pm

Yeah but the football is atrocious to watch.

Looking at our team and the teams we have played any manager would have had a similar record. And the 3 losses are all down to the manager,m not the players if you ask me.

Sven is a shocking manager and I can't wait to see the back of him

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:53 pm

dawson99 wrote:Yeah but the football is atrocious to watch.

Looking at our team and the teams we have played any manager would have had a similar record. And the 3 losses are all down to the manager,m not the players if you ask me.

Sven is a shocking manager and I can't wait to see the back of him

I think you are right Dawson.

Look at it this way against Ecuador we start with a 5 man midfield when we obviously have better players that should be bossing the game.
Instead we invite pressure and then near the end change tactics so we are playing two holding midfield players....against Ecuador ?
The win is most important factor, but thats not to say Sven is right, with better management we would of won the match more comfortably and the players would be more comfortable in there roles, the managers constant changing of players and tactics is leaving everyone (including the players) mystified.

by **davo_LFC** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:08 pm

Its not like england have faced tough opponents in the majority of svens reign and when they do come up against quality they more often than not come unstuck. Germany were perhaps the hardest team sven defeated and even they were very average at the time. I cant believe how average englands top players look under svens management. I mean does he make them tactically aware of what they have to do or does he just say go out their and do whatever the fu.ck you like? With a better manager ala salari, who has tactical wit, then england would shine IMO but sadly they are restricted by svens flaws.

Its a bit strange really, in the latter part of svens reign he seems to have fu.cked it up big time with a series of strange decisions.

However, i have a sneaky feeling that england will beat portugal. They seem to raise their game against the big teams. But if they are 1-0 up with 20 to go then expect englandtosit back and defend like fu.ck.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:22 pm

It's not that I'm trying to defend Sven , some of englands football under his management has been absolutely dire , I just don't know how much of that is down to Svens tactics (most countries would welcome a coach with his win ratio) or the players perhaps not being as good as we like to think they are .

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:30 pm

woof woof ! wrote:It's not that I'm trying to defend Sven , some of englands football under his management has been absolutely dire , I just don't know how much of that is down to Svens tactics (most countries would welcome a coach with his win ratio) or the players perhaps not being as good as we like to think they are .

I agree Woof that some of the players are not playing to their potential but I do think Sven gets his tactics wrong in two significant ways:

1) He tinkers a lot for no reason. Case in point: Hargreaves does well as a holding midfielder against Sweden and then gets moved to RB against Ecuador just to bring in an unproven Michael Carrick. Huh?

2) His substitutions are out of left field and overly-defensive most of the time. Case in point: Sunday he brings Carra on for Joe Cole, putting him at RB, moving Hargreaves to central midfield and moving Gerrard to LM. Again, huh?

by **davo_LFC** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:40 pm

Most players in the world cup play better for club than country,look at ronaldinho at brazil. He hasnt set the world alight and hes world footballer of the year. I'd say practically the whole england team play better for their clubs. So, i'd say that they a treated differently and therefore play differently. Ronaldinho is restricted from his party tricks which are more frequent in a barca shirt, gerrard isnt given the same freedom as in a liverpool shirt. This makes players less effective than for their country. It seems that teams like argentina and portugal get the best out of their players. Riquelme is given a free role like for villareal,deco pulls the strings like he does for barca(to an extent).

I think our players are as good as we make out but the best can only be brought out of them by using them correctly. So, with this 4-5-1 gerrard and lampard will be better coz neither has to sit and shorter passing will be encouraged which will suit the english games traditional high tempo. I wouldn't count on it though with rio's impressions of peter kay or svens amazing ability to fu.ck things up

by **woof woof !** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:25 am

Not being a tactical genius ,the thing that really puzzels me is why are we (England) always changing our formation to cope with the other team ? Do Brasil,Argentina,France,Spain,Gemany etc etc etc change their formation in anticipation of a what another team may do ,or do they just play to their strengths and let the other team do the worrying ?

Like I said ,I don't pretend to be a tactical genius so if the answer is obvious ,apologies in advance ,but injuries aside why do we keep fiddling with our set up ?

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