Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:54 pm

Don't let Beckham's goal fool you today. It was a great strike and a good goal but for me that does not justify his place in the team. His delivery from set pieces was woeful again apart from the goal, he created nothing from open play and his stamina (previously one of his strong points) was not there. People will say this is harsh because he scored a great winner, but I believe if Lennon had started on the right today England would have won the game by more than one goal. He caused more problems for Ecuador in 5 minutes in open play than Beckham did in 85 minutes.

Hansen summed it up well when he said Beckham gives you very little these days apart from set pieces. Is that going to be good enough against Portugal/Holland? We'll see.

by **PhiLFC** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:37 pm

do not let that bast.ard fool you.. or even the tart with the plastic tits... the Ecuador goalie should've had it.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:33 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
s@int wrote:The point I was trying to make about Beckhams freekicks is there is no imagination, no surprises, and that he hasnt scored from one for three years.

Maybe he was saving one for when it really mattered .

I just hope we dont have to wait another 3 years for Beckhams next goal from a free kick. The sad thing for me was Gerrard actually managed to take a quick free kick today,(I.E. before Beckham was able to run across)but the ref pulled it back because Beckham was in tears.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:05 pm

One well executed free kick shouldn't be allowed to obscure the shortcomings of a player in decline. Unfortunately, due to the infatuation with celebrity and brand Beckham it will be allowed to do so.

You can't doubt his commitment, but the difference when Lennon came on was obvious to anyone other than the manager and his hapless assistant. If we play the right footed and perpetually cutting in Cole on the left we have to have a natural wide player on the right. Furthermore, whoever the makeshift right back is they deserve decent protection from the corresponding midfielder. That doesn't equate to abandoning your post in perpetual search of the ball and glory.

Drop him and Lampard, unleash Gerrard through the centre and Lennon on the right, get Crouch on to release Rooney from laying off the ball and we have a punchers chance. Plough on in the same uninspired fashion that we've so far stumbled through with and we'll be found out.

Alternatively we keep on playing the replay of the free kick. Watch Beckham do a one man lap of honour after the game, count our sponsorship income and pack the bags.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:11 pm

I've never understood the Beckham worship, Even at his peak from 1996-2002 I thought Scholes was a MUCH better player. I guess it is the OK magazine effect.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:03 pm

I understand peoples anoyance with Beckham, but I still don't think he should be dropped.

People talk about Lennon as if he is the answer, I don't see it! Yes he is energetic, he works hard but how many times did he actually play a decent ball into the box?

Thats right folks, he didn't

For me Lennon is an excellent prospect, but as I have said in an earlier post, he does not have the experience in big games to beat a seaonsed profesional from the likes of Italy or Brazil.

Now Beckham is also not delivering what he was capable of doing 2 years ago, but he can still take a mean free kick and he does still provide good crosses. Ok, his succes in even these tasks has not been to his usual standard, but for me, he still offers that match winning stroke of genius that Lennon will no doupt provide in the next world cup.

The problem is not Beckhams, its Svens. He brought the wrong squad. If Sean Wright Phillips was in the squad I would be joining in with the "drop Beckham" brigade but as he is watching the game from his sofa this is impossible.

Sven also chose to take 2 strikers who where injured (Owen and Rooney) and also a player who has never had a chance to ply his trade in the Premiership and looks like is probably not as good as everyone believed or surely he would have had a run out by now.

These decisions by Sven have left him no other option but to keep the team as it has been for the last 4 games, hoping that his big players will eventually turn up and start playing.

by **2520years** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:13 pm

I wonder who Becks got the idea of sticking his fingers down his throat from..?

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:15 pm

I also feel Beckham should START the Portugal game i emphasise the word start because i just dont think Lennon would make as much of an impact if he started the game.
Beckham is obviously a limited player but his set pieces and crossing is still world class, we have scored 6 goals in the tournament so far and Beckham has scored one and has 2 assists. I agree that he could vary his passing better and it would stop the predictability of our free kicks if someone took the odd one.
I would start him and bring on Lennon in the last 20 minutes when the Portuguese are tiring, Lennon needs to improve his final ball but still causes panic in the opposition with his pace and direct running.
I really think the player that should be dropped is Lampard, his form is woeful, he is snatching at chances and missing some sitters, and if you take away his goals what does he offer ?
We need to play a 4-4-2 but i am certain Sven will persist with the 4-1-4-1 tactic that left Rooney isolated. We may still go through but Sven should be far bolder and start Crouch with Rooney.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:55 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:I would start him and bring on Lennon in the last 20 minutes when the Portuguese are tiring, Lennon needs to improve his final ball but still causes panic in the opposition with his pace and direct running.

Do you think Beckham even has 70 minutes in him at the moment Ace? He looked bolloxed by half time against Ecuador to me. Fitness used to be one of Beckham's best attributes, but that dipped when he went to Madrid (presumably because the training is less intense), then he put on some extra muscle bulk and for the past 2 years at least doesn't look like he has a full game in him to me.

Beckham was at his best as a wiry, agile and creative player. Then he somehow got it into his head he was some sort of midfield enforcer who could tackle and decided to hit the gym and bulk up - the pinnacle of this was in Portugal 2 years ago when he had absolutely no gas at all. He's lost a bit of bulk again, but has never recovered his agility, stamina or mobility.

by **dawson99** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:21 pm

Everyone has been saying well done to beckham for playing even tho hes ill. ok, the goal was good. but if a player is being physically sick, shouldnt he not be starting games? how weak is sven if hed rather play a beckham whos puking than another player who is 100% healthy.

yes, beckham scored a great goal (about time) but if we had a fit midfield we may have scored more goals anyways!!!

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:46 pm

john craig wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I would start him and bring on Lennon in the last 20 minutes when the Portuguese are tiring, Lennon needs to improve his final ball but still causes panic in the opposition with his pace and direct running.

Do you think Beckham even has 70 minutes in him at the moment Ace? He looked bolloxed by half time against Ecuador to me. Fitness used to be one of Beckham's best attributes, but that dipped when he went to Madrid (presumably because the training is less intense), then he put on some extra muscle bulk and for the past 2 years at least doesn't look like he has a full game in him to me.

Beckham was at his best as a wiry, agile and creative player. Then he somehow got it into his head he was some sort of midfield enforcer who could tackle and decided to hit the gym and bulk up - the pinnacle of this was in Portugal 2 years ago when he had absolutely no gas at all. He's lost a bit of bulk again, but has never recovered his agility, stamina or mobility.

No i dont think he looks like he has a full game in him tbh, and thats worrying considering the lack of running he does.
I just dont think England have any other options and to drop your captain before a quarter final of a major tournament would really rock the boat.
Lennon looks class, but as i have said previously his end product is still some way short of whats needed at this level. He is an ideal player to bring on late, when legs are tired and he can commit the opposition. Beckham for all his faults still creates plenty of oppurtunitys for his team mates and should start games. I think around the 70 minute mark Lennon should come on for Beckham and give the opposition a whole different problem. Imagibe you played left back against Beckham, you know he's not going to get past you one on one but for the majority of the game physically you will have a battle, you get to three quarters of teh way through the game pretty tired and then on comes someone with the pace and energy of Aaron Lennon, you would then be thinking oh sh!t ! But you start Lennon and leave Beckham sub, things aren't going to plan, you then think to yourself bring Beckham on for Lennon ? Would that make the same kind of impact ?
Added to the fact that a team with David Beckham in it takes pressure off other players then i think he should definately start the Portugal game.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:56 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
john craig wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:I would start him and bring on Lennon in the last 20 minutes when the Portuguese are tiring, Lennon needs to improve his final ball but still causes panic in the opposition with his pace and direct running.

Do you think Beckham even has 70 minutes in him at the moment Ace? He looked bolloxed by half time against Ecuador to me. Fitness used to be one of Beckham's best attributes, but that dipped when he went to Madrid (presumably because the training is less intense), then he put on some extra muscle bulk and for the past 2 years at least doesn't look like he has a full game in him to me.

Beckham was at his best as a wiry, agile and creative player. Then he somehow got it into his head he was some sort of midfield enforcer who could tackle and decided to hit the gym and bulk up - the pinnacle of this was in Portugal 2 years ago when he had absolutely no gas at all. He's lost a bit of bulk again, but has never recovered his agility, stamina or mobility.

No i dont think he looks like he has a full game in him tbh, and thats worrying considering the lack of running he does.
I just dont think England have any other options and to drop your captain before a quarter final of a major tournament would really rock the boat.
Lennon looks class, but as i have said previously his end product is still some way short of whats needed at this level. He is an ideal player to bring on late, when legs are tired and he can commit the opposition. Beckham for all his faults still creates plenty of oppurtunitys for his team mates and should start games. I think around the 70 minute mark Lennon should come on for Beckham and give the opposition a whole different problem. Imagibe you played left back against Beckham, you know he's not going to get past you one on one but for the majority of the game physically you will have a battle, you get to three quarters of teh way through the game pretty tired and then on comes someone with the pace and energy of Aaron Lennon, you would then be thinking oh sh!t ! But you start Lennon and leave Beckham sub, things aren't going to plan, you then think to yourself bring Beckham on for Lennon ? Would that make the same kind of impact ?
Added to the fact that a team with David Beckham in it takes pressure off other players then i think he should definately start the Portugal game.

I'm not a Beckham fan as you've probably guessed Ace, but you do make a decent case for his inclusion. I think the Beckham situation should have been sorted out well before the World Cup and either SWP or Gerrard should have played on the right for the last couple of qualifiers, therefore giving one of them a chance to play there for England in a competitive game and giving Beckham a kick up the @rse to see how he responded.

As it is now, it might disrupt the team too much to leave Beckham out at this stage, especially in a world cup quarter when he's one of the most experienced players. But I still think given that he's been playing so badly, leaving him out is an option almost any other manager apart from Sven would have at least considered. You just get the feeling with Sven is that there's no plan B and that Beckham could score 3 ogs, slice 5 pens over the bar, moon to the crowd, sleep with Sven's missus and still get picked the next game.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 pm

john craig wrote:I'm not a Beckham fan as you've probably guessed Ace, but you do make a decent case for his inclusion. I think the Beckham situation should have been sorted out well before the World Cup and either SWP or Gerrard should have played on the right for the last couple of qualifiers, therefore giving one of them a chance to play there for England in a competitive game and giving Beckham a kick up the @rse to see how he responded.

As it is now, it might disrupt the team too much to leave Beckham out at this stage, especially in a world cup quarter when he's one of the most experienced players. But I still think given that he's been playing so badly, leaving him out is an option almost any other manager apart from Sven would have at least considered. You just get the feeling with Sven is that there's no plan B and that Beckham could score 3 ogs, slice 5 pens over the bar, moon to the crowd, sleep with Sven's missus and still get picked the next game.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the point that this should of been sorted in the friendlies before the worldcup.
Sven has wasted friendly after friendly making 10 changes at half time playing fringe players that are never going to be good enough or selected in major tournaments anyway, Jenas being the prime example.
SWP must be absolutely gutted he went to Chelsea because he was in a position to put major pressure on Beckhams England place but the fact that he has hardly played all season has given Sven the tiny reason he needed to keep faith in his skipper.
I have an interesting thought on this...if England lose to Portugal and Beckham has a stinker, who will bear the brunt of the nations abuse ? ANSWER BECKHAM
He is someone not only to detract attention and pressure from the players before major games, he is also helping detract it from our clueless and spineless manager.

by **JC_81** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:22 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:I have an interesting thought on this...if England lose to Portugal and Beckham has a stinker, who will bear the brunt of the nations abuse ? ANSWER BECKHAM
He is someone not only to detract attention and pressure from the players before major games, he is also helping detract it from our clueless and spineless manager.

Maybe, as fickle as the English press is you certainly can't rule it out. More realistically though I think it's going to go back to Sven - with his sh.it squad selections, taking a 17 year old who he has no intention of playing, taking only 4 strikers when 2 are injured. Plus the fact that the English press and most English fans already have no faith in him and he's already on his way out, I expect him to bear the brunt of it.

And as lead on from that MacLaren who is part of his backroom team and future England manager will have it all to do to win over the English press and public before he's even taken charge for a game. The negative vibes will be there from the start which is why I don't think someone involved with Sven's set up should have been given the job. If MacLaren selects Beckham as his captain then he's already dug his own grave imo.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:29 pm

Svens selections have been increasingly baffling. To take Walcott and leave out Defoe and Bent was astonishing, but made me think Sven had seen something in the kid, then when our main source of goals (Owen) is injured and Rooney is being nursed back to fitness, the prodigy still doesnt get a look in.
There have been plenty of rumours that Sven took Theo to one side after the Paraguay game and asked him to wear the bandage on his calf and have a day off as he had realised what a major mistake he had made with his selection.
Only rumours but the fact that the lad hasnt had 1 minute on the pitch and we are short in that area i think proves they may be accurate.

Liverpool FC Forum

Would you drop beckham - Poll

Would you drop beckham - Poll

Who is online