Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:45 pm

I thought he was absolutely awful against Portsmouth on Sunday. Him and Cisse were passengers and Toderov was by a distance the most effective striker on view when he came on. Time to get rid, it's been a mistake.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:26 pm

Morientes was poor last night. Its true that he didn't get great service but there were two opportunities in the game where he simply should have done better.

The first opportunity, when Gerrard exposed some awful Pompey defending at the end of the first half should have been tucked away. Stevie overhit the pass to Moro although if truth be told, it was still a great chance and most strikers would have buried it. Nando looked like he was running in treacle in his attempt to get to the ball.

The other attempt was mid way through the second half, when a ball came in from Gerrard on the right. Moro tried to control it but it dribbled wide. It was a difficult chance, but you would expect a striker of Moro's ability and reputation to do better.

As I see it, Moro is a top player, but there are two main reasons for his current struggles. He still does not seem fit or sharp enough for the Premiership, and this is worrying, as he's here a year now and at this stage he should be motoring. He had the long excuse last season of not being match fit after what happened at Madrid, but this was stretching a bit towards the end of last season when he had enough games and hard training under his belt to get his fitness up to scratch. Therefore, my first reason for Moro struggling is down to Moro himself: his weaknesses rather than his strengths are what are coming to the fore.

However, I think the primary reason for him struggling is that we are still not using him correctly. Moro still isn't cutting it physically but he is fitter than last year. People who say that last night was his worst game for Liverpool are forgetting his woefully anemic display away to Palace last year, when he stunk the place out.

From what I can see, and from what I remember of his season at Monaco, when he was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 players in Europe that season, is that there are two major failings in our team game which result in Moro being ineffective. The first weakness is the fact that we are still not getting enough quality ball into the box from crosses. Jerome Rothen - a superb player - was one of the best crossers of the ball from the left I have seen in recent seasons. He was able to get quality ball to Moro's or Dado Prso's head time after time after time. We still aren't able to match this, despite the likes of Riise and Kewell being good crossers. Maybe the likes of Victor will help with this on the right, but I think the problem lies deeper. The team - as a whole - are simply not engineering enough good positons out wide to allow the wide player get good ball in.

The other weakness, as I see it, is that we do not have a midfield ball carrier like Moro had in Spain or at Monaco. Monaco had Guily, a guy that could carry the ball forward into the oppositon half and be quick footed and smart enough to play one twos with Moro, a part of the game Moro thrives on. The best play we have seen from Nando is when he can receive ball in deep areas from a ball carrier, lay it off to that player again, take up a position in the box while the ball carrier puts good ball in. We don't have that at Liverpool. Gerrard is an all or nothing kind of player and can be wasteful in possession as a result. Garcia is too inconsistent and sloppy to be consistently good at this role. Kewell could become one yet, but is not yet on form. Alonso can do it, but plays too deep.

Consistent crossers and a clever ball carrier would work wonders for Moro. However, if you take a step back and look at Rafa's career, one area in which his teams have always struggled with is the final third. His teams are always excellent in midfield and in defence, but can be wasteful in front of goal or can sometimes fail to turn dominance into good chances. Unfortunately I suspect that this will continue, and although Rafa's forwards will always be consistently helped out by goalscorers from midfield, I think it will take a genius player to score 25 goals or more from the front line in a Rafa Benitez side, in much the same way as a Mourinho side.

I said earlier in this thread that cream will rise to the top and I guess I better stick to that, but I think the problem lies deeper than Moro the player. There are other reasons as well.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:26 pm

I just dont think there is any desire to suceed with Morientes.
He might show flashes of what he is about, the odd drag back or nutmeg. But any time he is pressed by the opposition he concedes posession far too easily.
He also wears a look of resignation on his face, as if he has accepted that he is not going to make it at Liverpool.
I have been not only disappointed with Morientes but also surprised, i had the impression of an English style target man, who would use his body to hold the ball up and score loads of headers.
It would be harsh to totally critcise a player with so much pedigree and so many top honours, but the fact is he just doesnt have the desire and fight in him to turn things round in England.
So far Rafa has corrected mistakes in the transfer market like Nunez and Josemi, i hope he has the courage to do the same with Morientes.
With it being one day until the transfer window closes its obvious that he will be here until at least the end of the season so i will continue to get behind him and hope he proves us wrong, i am not holding my breath though.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:35 pm

I still say persevere, but truthfully, I think that, at best, Moro has 18 months left in him at Liverpool.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:06 pm

JBG wrote:I still say persevere, but truthfully, I think that, at best, Moro has 18 months left in him at Liverpool.

I can see what you mean about persevering with him as he is going nowhere for the time being.
But the goals need to come from somewhere and at present Nando doesn't look like he will be the man to get them.
I really think he is not going to up his game or goals ratio enough to risk leaving other players out.
He may be a much better bet in the champions league, but in the premiership at the moment i would use the other strikers.
Lets hope he scores 2 on wednesday and proves us wrong, but i doubt it.

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:35 pm

I've been one of Morientes' biggest supporters on here, but even I'm coming to the conclusion that he's just not going to cut it in this League. The ability is still there but for whatever reason it's just not happening and it's frustrating to watch at times. Both he and Cisse were woeful yesterday. Here are my views on Morientes.

1) Morientes plays FAR too much in midfield for my liking. Now this may well be rafa's instructions but in the end this means the midfielders have not got an outlet up front so when we break there is absolutely NO CHANCE of him being in the box. Infact if you think about it, he plays in a similiar position to rooney. However Rooney gets in the box alot quicker.

2) He's SUPPOSED to be good in the air. One of his first goals against Fulham last year for example. leaning his head back form about 15 yards and lobbed it into the top corner, that was a wonderful piece of skill. Whilst i'll say he hasn't been awful with his heading since he's been here, he certainly hasn't lived up to what should be expected. Garcia appears to be a better header of the ball from what I've seen this season. Even Pongolle scored with a header against Luton a few weeks back.

3) He is ALWAYS trying to find fitness. When he first arrived from Madrid he had no pre-season so lack of fitness could possibly have been used as a valid excuss but we are a YEAR on and he looks no fitter than when he first arrived.

4) When Crouch and Moreintes play together no one seems to take responsibility. Two essentially target men doesn't work. Despite being nowhere near good enough, Cisse has a 'LITTLE' bit of an excuse in that he has often STARTED the game at right midfield. Morientes has started every single game up front.

5) He often doesn't even LOOK like scoring. Cisse is missing sitters but is at least getting in the positions to miss, he isn't hiding. Morientes does get in positions quite alot in some games but then his lack of pace lets him down. Like yesterday Gerrard played the ball back to him and unfortunatly for Moro the defenders where all over him because he lacked that extra yard.

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:54 pm

stmichael wrote:2) He's SUPPOSED to be good in the air. One of his first goals against Fulham last year for example. leaning his head back form about 15 yards and lobbed it into the top corner, that was a wonderful piece of skill. Whilst i'll say he hasn't been awful with his heading since he's been here, he certainly hasn't lived up to what should be expected. Garcia appears to be a better header of the ball from what I've seen this season. Even Pongolle scored with a header against Luton a few weeks back.

A good post and spot on about his heading ability.

I was really looking forward and expecting Nando to score the type of goals we havent really seen since Aldridge.
But after that fantastic header at home against Fulham he has been poor and doesnt seem the same player that was heading goals for fun for Monaco and Real Madrid.
It may be because of the physical side of the premiership that his heading has suffered, maybe its in the back of his mind that he will be clattered by the keeper or one of the centre halves.
Thats the only reason i can think of.
At Portsmouth yesterday he really looked like he'd had enough of England, and i think he would jump at a move back to la liga, the disappointing thing is not many fans would be too bothered if he went.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:05 pm

No, he has never been Aldo. Aldo was able to score with a header a la Luis Garcia against Anderlecht, his timing of the neck movement was so accurate, I have seen very few like him.

I always thought he was a goof header of the ball though, and I can remember some good balls this season. Anyway, it seems to me that he has lost the confidence of the people forever, so perhaps the best thing will be to get rid of him

by **drummerphil** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:09 pm

be honest with you i'm starting to feel how i did with kewell,and its taken him over 2 years to start showing decent form.Personally i would let him go,his lack of pace in our league finds him out again and again.

by **bigmick** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:16 pm

JBG wrote:I still say persevere, but truthfully, I think that, at best, Moro has 18 months left in him at Liverpool.

18 months? I wouldn't give him anywhere near that long. I think in our current team he is a passenger and I would be looking to offload as soon as possible while we'll still get something for him. In far too many games he offers precisely nothing and his attempt to go past Linvoy Primus at Pompey which was met with a disdainful shoulder nudge off the ball was his Liverpool career in a nutshell for me. His look of resignation in the immediate aftermath was one of a man who knows it's all over.
Some very respected posters on here urge patience with him and I can only assume this is based on play he has produced before he arrived at Anfield because based on what he has done since he came, he isn't worth a carrot.

by **laza** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:35 pm

I not sure Nando will be leaving soon, simply because i expect Cisse will be heading out the door. I would be surprised if Rafa would let go of 22 odd million pounds of forward flesh when i doubt we would recoup enough to get two decent replacements.
I certainly a supporter of Mori but my patience is beginning to wear thin, his cases isnt helped by the fact that known of forwards have been exactly setting scoring charts on fire, so there is nobody to hide behind.

by **JBG** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:33 pm

I acknowledge what BigMick is saying but I'm keen on giving him a bit more time.

I know I said that last season as I honestly thought we'd see the real Morientes this season, but while he has improved a small bit, he still hasnt done anyting major, aside from the Boro game at home.

I thought we'd see more Boro type performances from him, but my heart still says it will come yet, although my head is getting quite sceptical now.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:03 am

Another lack lustre performance from Fernando, very lethargic doesnt look interested, he was starting to get frustrated last night, and tried to tackle a few times, but thats not part of his game, cause they where all miss timed resulting in free kicks the other way.
What does Morientes have to do to not get subbed?
Clearly Rafa's favourite. Livend up a bit 2nd half but totally none exsisting for 60 minutes, and at this rate he can forget his chance to be playing for Spain in Germany.

by **dawson99** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:35 pm

in fairness he did set up the stevie g goal, but hes not doing enough around the pitch at the moment

by **bigmick** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:04 pm

Seriously guys, if we had a proper striker we would have a football team to take on allcomers. My suggestion is that really we all know that Morientes isn't the answer, but an allegiance to the club stops us admitting the obvious. Given their contributions at the moment Cisse and Morientes are not worth their place on the pitch. Sinema-Pongolle is either being primed for a big role in the future or Rafa doesn't rate him in the slightest. If a striker at Liverpool can't get a game infront of the dynamic duo there must be a problem.
Seriously, Morientes is not going to do the business for us of that I am convinced.

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