Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:29 pm

Just got back from the game. Funny old game football. We played far better at Boro last week than we did today yet today we got all three points compared to one last week. If we're going to braeak into the top 3 we have got to be prepared to win ugly. In the past, this would have been a fixture in which we would inevitably drop points, so to get the three points was obviously vital. Yes we missed chances galore but defensively we looked solid and Sissoko is already proving a revelation.

However I'm a little bit pi$$ed off to be honest. Here's a question for you. What do Everton, Fulham, Aston Villa, Charlton, Newcastle and Bolton all have in common. Yes you've guessed it. They all play 4-5-1. It well and truly is the new way to go as managers send out teams not to lose games rather than to win them. I wasn't entirely happy when we used this system at Boro last week (although I could understand it being away from home) but when I saw the team sheet and formation today I was disappointed to say the least.

4-5-1 at home? I'm sorry but against the likes of Sunderland, who were literally there for the taking, we should surely be playing with two up top? Morientes looks so far off the pace at the moment it's unreal and a blind man could see that he can't play upfront on his own. As for Cisse, I've said it a thousand times. I don't think Rafa rates the guy at all. If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

I don't want to sound negative. We won after all. 4 points out of 6 isn't bad by any means. However I'd just like to see us be a bit more positive, especially at home. We're not ruthless enough when it comes to finishing teams off. Today's evidence proves that we need Michael Owen back and we need him quick.

But please Rafa, no more 4-5-1 systems at home please.

by **KeepTheFaith** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:31 pm

stmichael wrote:Just got back from the game. Funny old game football. We played far better at Boro last week than we did today yet today we got all three poiints compared to one last week. If we're going to braeak into the top 3 we have got to be prepared to win ugly. In the past, this would have been a fixture in which we would inevitably drop points, so to get the three points was obviously vital. Yes we missed chances galore but defensively we looked solid and Sissoko is already proving a revelation.

However I'm a little bit pi$$ed off to be honest. Here's a question for you. What do Everton, Fulham, Aston Villa, Charlton, Newcastle and Bolton all have in common. Yes you've guessed it. They all play 4-5-1. It well and truly is the new way to go as managers send out teams not to lose games rather than to win them. I wasn't entirely happy when we used this system at Boro last week (although I could understand it being away from home) but when I saw the team sheet and formation today I was disappointed to say the least.

4-5-1 at home? I'm sorry but against the likes of Sunderland, who were literally there for the taking, we should surely be playing with two up top? Morientes looks so far off the pace at the moment it's unreal and a blind man could see that he can't play upfront on his own. As for Cisse, I've said it a thousand times. I don't think Rafa rates the guy at all. If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

I don't want to sound negative. We won after all. 4 points out of 6 isn't bad by any means. However I'd just like to see us be a bit more positive, especially at home. We're not ruthless enough when it comes to finishing teams off. Today's evidence proves that we need Michael Owen back and we need him quick.

But please Rafa, no more 4-5-1 systems at home please.

I concur. Was sure you would play 4-4-2 and come at us. Dunno why Mr. Benetiz didn't, why he didn't only he will know.

by **A.B.** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:35 pm

If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

The reason Benitez is playing him as a right winger is because we don't have a right winger, and Cisse is a far better option than Luis Garcia. Benitez is looking for a right winger, and when we sign one Cisse won't be playing on the right wing.

by **mighty mo** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:39 pm

A.B. wrote:
If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

The reason Benitez is playing him as a right winger is because we don't have a right winger, and Cisse is a far better option than Luis Garcia. Benitez is looking for a right winger, and when we sign one Cisse won't be playing on the right wing.

totally agree

by **Ciggy** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:40 pm

Saint Ive never once heard you say that rafa doesnt rate Cisse? so why have you said in that topic that you have said it a thousand times?

by **stmichael** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:45 pm

A.B. wrote:
If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

The reason Benitez is playing him as a right winger is because we don't have a right winger, and Cisse is a far better option than Luis Garcia. Benitez is looking for a right winger, and when we sign one Cisse won't be playing on the right wing.

the thing is, the manager should pick a system to suit the players that we have got rather than picking the players to suit a particular system.

by **oOShrimpyOo** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:52 pm

we havent yet got the quality in the side to be playing this formation effectively, well as effectively to say someone like chelsea. chelsea can play this system very well as they have quality wingers, hopefully rafa wil sort this soon enough though... i pray.

by **Feeney** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:01 pm

stmichael wrote:
A.B. wrote:
If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

The reason Benitez is playing him as a right winger is because we don't have a right winger, and Cisse is a far better option than Luis Garcia. Benitez is looking for a right winger, and when we sign one Cisse won't be playing on the right wing.

the thing is, the manager should pick a system to suit the players that we have got rather than picking the players to suit a particular system.

I have to say, I disagree Saint. If that were the case, Baros would be top scorer as we would play just like the Czechs and Smicer would still be here.

4-5-1? I'm seeing more 4-3-2-1. Is it just me?

by **stmichael** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:03 pm

Feeney wrote:
stmichael wrote:
A.B. wrote:
If he did he wouldn't make him play on the right wing at home against relegation candidates. We all saw what happened to Diouf didn't we?

The reason Benitez is playing him as a right winger is because we don't have a right winger, and Cisse is a far better option than Luis Garcia. Benitez is looking for a right winger, and when we sign one Cisse won't be playing on the right wing.

the thing is, the manager should pick a system to suit the players that we have got rather than picking the players to suit a particular system.

I have to say, I disagree Saint. If that were the case, Baros would be top scorer as we would play just like the Czechs and Smicer would still be here.

4-5-1? I'm seeing more 4-3-2-1. Is it just me?

it's a 4-2-3-1 really. the problem is though that zenden and garcia don't have the pace to get in and support the lone striker. in this system the ideal two players to have in the wide areas would be kewell (if playing well) and FSP. just look at the arsenal game at anfield last season.

by **Feeney** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:08 pm

stmichael wrote:it's a 4-2-3-1 really. the problem is though that zenden and garcia don't have the pace to get in and support the lone striker. in this system the ideal two players to have in the wide areas would be kewell (if playing well) and FSP. just look at the arsenal game at anfield last season.

How do you see it Saint? Sissko Kid n Xabi, or Sissko kid n Gerrard in the 2, Gerrard/Xabi, Zenden (as you said, Kewell)and Garcia (FSP) in the 3?

by **rash** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:25 pm

the best we can play right now is xabi and sissoko as the 2, zenden, gerrard and garcia as the 3, but as said above, zenden and garcia can't really provide any real width and especially garcia, who is giving the ball up much too easily IMO.

He does have the right mindframe to be part of the "3" in terms of creativity but the execution is hardly ever there

by **red37** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:53 pm

how many games go by and again we ask..is morientes going to make it?

my question is. without doubting his unquestionable TALENT.

are we USING that talent in the right system?

does nando HAVE to be running all over the pitch in order to JUSTIFY himself, for whatever reason, god knows. does he have to chase an opponent way back into his own half, and then be out of position when the ball is fired back up to our strikers?
one incident springs to mind today of that same example..and el moro was roundly applauded upon retrieving the ball. great, well done.....

but what then.........it broke down because there was no one to hold it up..

im not slating the guy either, i STILL rate fernando morientes.
but i dont think we are UTILISING his strengths AT all.

by **NiftyNeil** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:14 am

I'll think we'll see an improvment when Crouch starts playing. He can hold balls up better than the strikers we have got, then Rafa will be more confident in playing two up front. Hopefully, he will bring the best out in the players we have got.
I went to the match today, and Cisse looked as though his confidence has gone. He was looking sharp in the last home game - I'm wondering if he is beginning to believe the rumours circulating about him leaving.
I thought Aldo was a bit harsh on him (on Radio City) after the game - Morrientes disserved the stick, as he was pants again. He has no pace, no movement and I am still waiting for him to show us some of his alleged worldclass skill. He had a good headed chance early on, but that was as good as it got.

by **sinema** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:13 am

NiftyNeil wrote:I'll think we'll see an improvment when Crouch starts playing. He can hold balls up better than the strikers we have got, then Rafa will be more confident in playing two up front. Hopefully, he will bring the best out in the players we have got.
I went to the match today, and Cisse looked as though his confidence has gone. He was looking sharp in the last home game - I'm wondering if he is beginning to believe the rumours circulating about him leaving.
I thought Aldo was a bit harsh on him (on Radio City) after the game - Morrientes disserved the stick, as he was pants again. He has no pace, no movement and I am still waiting for him to show us some of his alleged worldclass skill. He had a good headed chance early on, but that was as good as it got.

Agreed Neil,

I hate to say it, but Morientes has been a flop, Cisse is never a £14 million talent (does anyone really believe we'd get half that amount if we sold him) and Baros, well we know he's going but is he worse than the others?
Benitez, in an interview today, says that we have six strikers :is he including Mellor and Pongolle, if so we're in a sorry state.
I have supported Liverpool for 57 years and want nothing more than for them to be successful again and to do so in style. (Please don't throw the Champions League at me)
Some posters say that all that matters is the result and if we win, who cares how it was achieved. Well I do, and so do many others.
Just compare our front players with those of the "other" top clubs, forget your bias, and we are way behind. Peter Crouch may yet prove to be an inspired signing, I certainly hope so, and maybe he can bring the best out of one or two of the others. However, I would lose no sleep if we sold Morientes, Baros and Cisse tomorrow, for all they're contributing to our team, and let's buy a class goal scorer if there's one available.
Over the years there has been harsh criticism of players like Biscan and Smicer, but were they any worse than Morientes and Cisse? Well maybe, just.
Finally, can we stop this hero-worship of Rafa Benitez? I like the man, he has dignity. But I think the jury is still out, considering some of his signings, team selections and tactics.
(I said, "Don't mention the Champions' League)
Hoping he gets it right and we are soon back where we belong.
Gosh, I feel better after that.

by **neilE** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:35 am

sound post, sinema - although I can't agree with you completely. Cisse isn't worth 14 mil - you have to be wanted by Chelsea to be worth that - but just because we wouldn't get our money back doesn't make him a bad player. You mention getting in a quality goal scorer - who? - Owen perhaps, but personally I wouldn't want to sell Cisse even if Owen did come back. We need the alternatives to make us into a title challenging side again.
Your comments on Benitez - it psses me off too, the amount of unquestioning support he gets - don't get me wrong - he's an excellent manager, and we've done well to get him, but he isn't perfect, and he's still learning about our league (which is one reason why I think his team was able to win the CL but not get 4th place last season). But all that means we have got to look to the future - I hope to see some promise this season that the setup we have could win the league - and maybe next season all the pieces will be in place. I think it's too early to say we should sell Morientes or Cisse (or even Baros unless MO comes back at the same time), because they, and the rest of the squad, managers and coaches included, need this season to show us whether they really are good enough or not...................

Liverpool FC Forum

This 4-5-1 malarchy - We can't play this at home

Who is online