Liverpool FC Forum

by **stoney** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:16 pm

People say Zenden aint the winger we've been looking for as he doesn't have that much pace and that he cant beat a man. People have problems with Riise as they say he aint a natural winger and he cant really beat players that well just as Zenden cant. Who do you think will provides more of a threat down the left wing considering all aspects including: quality of crosses, build up play in team moves and goals contributed?

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:30 pm

For me it's Riise all the way. Zenden isn't good enough in my opinion. Even on a free, a transfer mistake in my view.
Riise wouldn't be the first wide player not to beat people. Given last season was the first time he's had a sustained run at left midfield, I think it's reasonable to assume he'll improve over time. It never ceases to amaze me that while new players without fail attract the "give him time, remember Pires" brigade, existing players are often written off. I think Riise is currently a much better left hand sided midfield player than he is a full-back which while I admit says a lot about his defending, surely warrants him being persevered with. Zenden? not for me in any way shape or form. Sorry.

by **stoney** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:33 pm

yeh same bigmick i reckon that Riise is more effective

p.s how come you didnt vote

by **woof woof !** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:35 pm

Based on the little I've seen (not being a boro supporter ) i'd have to go with Zenden ,but thats not to say I didn't appreciate Riise's contribution last season . Lost count of the number of times he managed to sneak forward while play was devolping down the right and suddenly there he was on the left hanging almost unmarked just outside the box waiting for a decent ball .
Not bad for a "full back"

by **andy_g** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:42 pm

in terms of pure attacking threat i'd have to say riise. he has a venemous shot and, mostly, a good technique - and many sides are aware of that. i'd back him to score more goals than zenden. but in terms of adding width and giving a different angle to our attacking play i'd say zenden. he's not particularly aggressive but he seems to often be there in the final third or in the corner trying to ping a ball in.

bigmick, why is it that you are so unconvinced by zenden?

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:44 pm

stoney wrote:yeh same bigmick i reckon that Riise is more effective

p.s how come you didnt vote

Hardly ever do mate. Most of the polls recieve about 15 votes if it's an intersting subject, but about 50 opinions. The opinions are more relavent to me and particularly, who thinks what. There have been a few on here recently who I don't bother reading their posts to be honest so I'm even less interested in how they vote in a poll.
One last thing Stoney, you seem like a fella with something to say and I like reading your stuff. Please please please drop the text speak though. It diminishes your point in my humble view and does me 'ead in. :nod

by **JC_81** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:47 pm

Zenden for me.

I've said loads of times on this forum that Riise's problem is that he is a wing-back who is employed by a club that doesn't use them. His defending isn't solid enough for him to be a top full back and he isn't skilful enough to be a top winger. He has good pace, a good engine and a quality shot. He lacks the ability to beat a man, and unlike other quality wide men like beckham in his prime, he cannot compensate for this with quality crossing ability.

Zenden is a better player than Riise IMO (although not by that much). His passing, movement and crossing are all better than Riise's, although he is not as combative or strong in the tackle. He seems to be able to find better attacking positions than Riise, posing more of a threat. Unfortunately, like Riise, he blows hot and cold. When on form he is very hard to contain, but when off his game he is anonymous.

I hope that by being able to rotate the 2 of them this season, we will be able to rest them both when needed and get the best out of them. I would tend to use Riise on the left of midfield in the tougher away fixtures and Zenden more at home as he is more likely to create chances imo.

Riise played some of his best stuff for us last season on the left of midfield and we'd be foolish to move him to left back again. Pre season has confirmed what I already thought, he is NOT a good full-back. Warnock should push on and make the left back spot his own this year.

by **stoney** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:52 pm

bigmick wrote:
stoney wrote:yeh same bigmick i reckon that Riise is more effective

p.s how come you didnt vote

Hardly ever do mate. Most of the polls recieve about 15 votes if it's an intersting subject, but about 50 opinions. The opinions are more relavent to me and particularly, who thinks what. There have been a few on here recently who I don't bother reading their posts to be honest so I'm even less interested in how they vote in a poll.
One last thing Stoney, you seem like a fella with something to say and I like reading your stuff. Please please please drop the text speak though. It diminishes your point in my humble view and does me 'ead in.

Please please please drop the text speak though. It diminishes your point in my humble view and does me 'ead in.

yeh sure mate, what can I say? the text speak is just a bad msn habbit

Ill try and drop the text speak

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:54 pm

andy_g wrote:bigmick, why is it that you are so unconvinced by zenden?

Bit of a longstanding thing Andy TBH. He always featured in those Chelsea teams of five or six years ago who got knocked out in the preliminaries by some Latvian team. There he was, on the periphery of the action doing sweet F.A. but picking up his money.
Similarly at Middlesboro' where I had the misfortune of seeing him 'live' a couple of times. In fairness when I mentioned his lack of commitment, effort and influence in an earlier post, A.B. pointed out that he won the supporters player of the year last season which would seem to disprove my point. Theirs is a team however full of prima-donnas and mercenaries, Viduka and Hasselbaink are a disgrace to their profession in my view and compared to them Zenden probably looked like Carra.
In short, before we signed him I came out and said I thought he was garbage. He plays for us now so I sincerely hope he proves me wrong but I have to say on the evidence of what I have seen sofar, I'm not exactly holding my breath.
Given the fact that he is injured for the tricky away leg in Sofia, I'd be interested to find out ( probably Chelsea forever would know) if he was one of the players who refused to travel to Isreal when Chelsea got put out by Macabi Tel Aviv or whoever it was. They ended up having to take a team of kids 'cos half the feckers wouldn't go.

by **andy_g** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:00 am

fair enough mick - and i completely accept your point about mercenaries. i haven't followed zendens career that close to be honest, though i remember when he played for barca he often seemed to be in the thick of it and playing pretty well in a decent side.

the only time i've seen him 'live' was when we played boro at anfield late last season, and to be honest he was as anonymous as just about everyone else in a fairly dire game.

i don't think he's a massive improvement on what we have with riise in that position but he's a different kind of player. as john pointed out, the good thing is that the two of them being pretty much in competition for that position should see them both raise their games.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:02 am

Sorry Big Mick ,you don't get 50+ caps for holland unless you got something in yer bag . Think you got this one wrong ,on a free ! , Zenden is an excellent signing .

by **stoney** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:07 am

yeh but your forgetting woof woof that zenden got most of these caps is his Barcelona and maybe chelsea days. Zenden was a much better player then than he is now and as he even mentioned one of the reasons why he came to LFC was to get into the holland squad for the world cup.

by **bigmick** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:07 am

One of the lads at work is a died in the wool scouser Woof, as passionate a red as you could meet and he is on your side mate. He rates Bolo highly and thinks he will be a steal for us. Similarly, I had conversation in the pub with Forssell a few weeks back and he said that Zenden would be a great signing for us. He actually hailed the Dutchman as a real team man and a smashing fella ta boot.
It's all about opinions though bud and I think we've done our dough on this one.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:21 am

bigmick wrote:It's all about opinions though bud and I think we've done our dough on this one.

It's what the forum is all about Mick , end of the season we'll compare butty's .

by **Paul C** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:25 am

I'm undecided, I like Riise but I think with him at left back and Zenden in midfield we have the best of both worlds, plus it's too early to see how Zenden will perform for us so ask me this at Christmas :;):

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Riise vs zenden - Who provides the bigger threat?

Riise vs zenden - Who provides the bigger threat?

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