Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:22 pm

Champions League semi is a fantastic achievement, who knows we might even win it! Fact is though, in the league we've been poor, especially away from home. Now this is not one of those "sign this bloke, that bloke" threads, they've been done. This is more of philosophical question. Where do we go next season? How can we go to places like Palace and get a result? I don't agree with Rafa when he says they were over physical yesterday, they merely played like a team fighting for survival always plays. It'll be the same next season as well so waht to do?
My feeling is that we definately need (assuming Gerrard leaves) a ball-winning midfield player, that is step one. My suspicion is that we are probably going to have to look at the British market for one or two players, if not actually British then based over here and used to the rough and tumble. We'll need a new captain which Cara looks nailed on for and we'll also need to find that mentality which means you scrap for everything when under the gun.
One thing is certain. If we are waiting for the likes of Crystal Palace to try and football us off the park when they are scrapping for points we are going to be waiting a long time.
I think Rafa is a God but his comments after the game yesterday did the club no credit. Endeavour and passion are as precious a commodity in a football team as skill and class if the more gifted team doesn't have the collective will to fight for the right to play. We can't weave pretty patterns every week, we need some fight.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:28 pm

Champions League semi is a fantastic achievement, who knows we might even win it! Fact is though, in the league we've been poor, especially away from home. Now this is not one of those "sign this bloke, that bloke" threads, they've been done. This is more of philosophical question. Where do we go next season? How can we go to places like Palace and get a result? I don't agree with Rafa when he says they were over physical yesterday, they merely played like a team fighting for survival always plays. It'll be the same next season as well so waht to do?
My feeling is that we definately need (assuming Gerrard leaves) a ball-winning midfield player, that is step one. My suspicion is that we are probably going to have to look at the British market for one or two players, if not actually British then based over here and used to the rough and tumble. We'll need a new captain which Cara looks nailed on for and we'll also need to find that mentality which means you scrap for everything when under the gun.
One thing is certain. If we are waiting for the likes of Crystal Palace to try and football us off the park when they are scrapping for points we are going to be waiting a long time.
I think Rafa is a God but his comments after the game yesterday did the club no credit. Endeavour and passion are as precious a commodity in a football team as skill and class if the more gifted team doesn't have the collective will to fight for the right to play. We can't weave pretty patterns every week, we need some fight.

A ball winner? Are you havin a laugh? Thats all we've bloody have. Thats the problem. Gerrard, Hamann and Alonso are all ball winners by trade. Alonso is a deep lying play maker aswell into the mould. We need creativety, drive and flair. A Paul Scholes (at his best) sort of player.

We need an aggressive player who has the ability to go forward. I'd take Cole or Parker of Chelsea without a doubt.

I somehow think they'd offer us a better mix than Gerrard and Alonso ever could because of Gerrard's ego.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:30 pm

we don't need any more combative players if hamann & biscan stays. What we need is quality players.

Lets be frank. We lost today because traore is not a left winger. La Tellac & Finnan are not right wingers. Pelle is not a left back. If we just get good wingers and a gr8 centreback, we should be ok. No need for whole sale changes.

by **Hotrod** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:31 pm

Agree with stu we need a player in the centre of the park who can make things happen, and is creative with loads of drive which will inspire the team to play better

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:35 pm

Without doubt for me, our priority for next season must be two wide midfielders who have actually proven that they can play from wide positions. We simply haven’t had outlets in our team, Riise is providing it at the moment, but he is not a long term fixture. The strikers have been starved of service, Garcia has done well playing off a main striker but he doesn’t directly create much.

If you put Pires and Ljungberg, Giggs and Ronaldo, Robben and Duff, or even Downing and Mendiate into our team we would improve massively.

We simply haven’t got enough players who can pick up the ball and beat a man or thread a pass. We need more players who are an attacking threat for defenders.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:38 pm

And i am not anti-traore all of a sudden.

Traore is a good centreback (there i have said it). He has been doing an ok job at left back so far. He is certainly not a left winger.

by **JC_81** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:48 pm

I think we do need a bit more creativity in the team, certainly in the wide positions. Garcia is good at playing off the forwards but doesn't impress me when he has to play out wide. There is definitely a place for him in the team but not out wide. Riise has been good also on the left but i agree he is not the long term solution there.

However the main reason we have struggled away from home is not because of our playing personnel or tactics. It is almost entirely psychological i feel. A few bad away results near the start of the season and the media picked up on it. This has developed into 'Liverpool are a bad away side'. I think this has somehow got into the players' mindsets. I think a fresh start next season even with the same personnel and our away form would pick up.

by **bigmick** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:53 pm

stu_the_red wrote:A ball winner? Are you havin a laugh?

We've crossed paths often enough on here Stu for you to know when I'm having a laugh and not. I don't agree with you when you describe Alonso as being a ball-winner, certainly not in the sense that I mean anyhow.
What I mean by ball-winner is someone who sets the mood, the tempo of the whole team. A combative, talismanic motivator. They usually play central midfield though not always (John Terry at Chelsea for example). Had we have had Terry, we probably wouldn't have lost yesterday. Now I'm not daft enough to think that he is for sale, but I merely make the point that the team collectively lacks spine and character at times in the Premiership in my view and that for future signings we should consider character, will and suitability to the rough and tumble as well as other qualites.
The contrast in our stickability is nowhere more starkly illustrated than in our League and Champions league away performances. We can go to Juve and deservedly get a draw, whereas when we go the more physical teams in the Prem, too often we appear not to relish the battle.
I'll make a prediction here and now. When we go to Portsmouth, Bolton, Man City etc etc next season they are going to be very physical. If we cannot compete and fight for the right to play, we are going to struggle next season as well.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:07 pm

First of all dont give f@ckin pellegrino a new contract. i will be happy enough with that, not really in a typative mood today, but had to say it.

by **A.B.** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:13 pm

I think we do need a bit more creativity in the team, certainly in the wide positions. Garcia is good at playing off the forwards but doesn't impress me when he has to play out wide. There is definitely a place for him in the team but not out wide. Riise has been good also on the left but i agree he is not the long term solution there.

However the main reason we have struggled away from home is not because of our playing personnel or tactics. It is almost entirely psychological i feel. A few bad away results near the start of the season and the media picked up on it. This has developed into 'Liverpool are a bad away side'. I think this has somehow got into the players' mindsets. I think a fresh start next season even with the same personnel and our away form would pick up

Spot on, the "mentality" is not there on the road when we need it. It's not the tactics,personal it's the fact that our players seem brain-dead on the road and have no drive or desire to go forward as if they already lost before they even kick a ball/

by **Dalglish** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:23 am

Unlees history repeats itself and we are presented with the longest and most extensive injury list in our living memory I believe we will progress much further next season.

To my mind we need Rafa to be as brutally honest with Biscan ,Traroe, Potter, Josemi, Pelle, Mellor, Welsh , Smicer, Baros and Dudek as he was with Murphy last season.

I go to plenty of the games and if Rafa is seeing something in the above list of players than I'm not seeing it !!

by **A.B.** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:29 am

Well Ian you're not a jinx afterall.

by **Dalglish** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:45 am

The ONLY silver lining from the Palace game !!!!!!

To be honest it didn't surprise me that we lost. I've seen much of the same all season away from home and like Hansen on MOTD said , too many players don't fancy the physically demanding away trips in the prem !

by **A.B.** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:48 am

True, to be honest I had a bad feeling about the game. Palace haven't won since February prior to our game so they had to beat us, it was the same scenario when we played Soton.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:55 am

I believe that the team needs a winger that can do a wingers job (create), and a midfielder with the aggression and desire of JC. If we have enough money left afterwards, I would go for a quick, reliable CB to replace Hyypia, a GK that won't make stupid errors, and a striker who is happy to sit on the bench yet still score 10-15 goals a season as a sub/cover. It really is about strength in depth. The trouble is finding these players. We seem to have a curse in the GK department and, as such, cannot seem to get the best out of otherwise highly skilled stoppers. Any team which wins the league must have top-quality cover for every position on the pitch. We haven't. I'm sure Rafa will sort this out, though! Up the 'pool!

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