Liverpool FC Forum

by **ozzie1000** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:59 pm

seems like our squad is improving,but not good enuff to be a championship squad,such as chealsea man u n arsenal

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:12 pm

It is true that we have been strangely unlucky with injuries this season, it is alright to have two or maybe three first teamers out at one time, but our case has been much worse than that, I think people should cut Houllier a bit of slack.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:38 pm

Most of whats been wrote there i'd agree with.

I don't think we'd be the best in england if it hadn't been for the injurys but i firmly believe with a normal run of injuries we'd be up there. Maybe not first, maybe not even second or third but i doubt the gap would be 15 points. More along the lines of 5 or 6.

Owzat there are some good stats there mate, but what it doesn't show you is the fact that alot of these players were missing at the same time. Its not like we were missing Hamann, then we had Kewell to come in, or missing Owen and had Baros to come in or missing Finnan and had Carragher to come in.

Also if you look at those stats, Henchoz, Carragher, Hamann are all CERTAIN starters and part of the first 11. So thats 3 out for most of the season. Finnan and Owen in the next section are also certain starters and have missed a majority. So ok... the backup for these positions, Riise the backup full back with Carragher switching to the other side... can't happen, Carragher and Finnan have both missed most of the season. Baros to come in for Owen and soften the blow a bit??? Nope, Baros for arguements sake is Owens backup and he's been injured near enough all season. Kirkland and Dudek i rate pretty much = but now they are both injured, as good as jones is he's not as good as these two.

I'm glad one or two people realise that this season the injuries have contributed greatly to our league position (or at least points tally) I firmly believe we'll start to look the side we actually are when these players are all back playing then hopefully people will realise Houllier hasn't done a bad job and may just give him that extra time he needs and deserves.

Or is that asking to much?

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:28 pm

I think with a fully fit squad and a lineup with either Kirkland or Dudek, a back four with Henchoz, carragher (or Riise), Hyppia and Finnan, a midfield from Kewell, Murphy, Gerrard and Hamman, and Heskey (or Baros) and Owen up front, we are a good team, and probably would be a hell of a lot closer to the top three this season.

HOWEVER, it is still not a team capable of winning the Championship and with Houllier in sole charge since November 1998 we really have to ask ourselves whether we have really moved on from the Roy Evans days.

People harp on about the "treble" but Michael Owen said himself that qualifying for the Champions League in 2001 was far more important than those trophies.

I still fume when I hear people blaming everything on Michael Owen being injured. Owen has had bad injuries every season he has been here, and we never put a contingency plan in place. If Houllier blames his problems on Owen being out, then it is his own fault for not planning properly.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:47 pm

No but he has an alternative in Baros who is a very capable deputy. But he's been missing also. Its know that since Heskey "lost it" we've needed another striker to partner Owen.

The point is its not just about Owen, we've missed alot of players this season, we've missed alot of players all at the same time.

This current squad is only 3 players away from being as good as anything in Europe but it has to be three first team players.

Dudek
Kirkland

Carragher
Finnan
Riise
Vignal
Hyypia
Henchoz
Traore
We need one more centre half who's better than Henchoz. Boumsong?

Murphy
Kewell
Diouf
Gerrard
Hamann
Smicer
Welsh
Le Tallec
We need a right sided mifielder who's better than Murphy and Diouf. Malbranque or Davies?

Owen
Baros
Heskey
Sinama-Pongolle
We need a striker thats better than Baros. Cisse?

With three top class additions we'll be very strong and won't suffer the same problems when other key players get injured. Imagine having Cisse, Boumsong and Malbranque this season when we had all the injuries and now aswell... we'd have coped so much better. Next season i am sure the injuries won't be as bad.. with these players or players of this quality at least the only way is up.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:57 pm

How many goals has Baros scored in a Liverpool shirt? 7?

How is he a capable deputy for Owen?

by **DAV** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:15 am

owen is class i like baros but that is all the talent we have up front.
2 good strikers isnt enough for any top team.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:28 am

I said an able deputy. I didn't say he was as good.

Meaning if Owen is injured for a few games or suspended he can come in score some goals and offer pace, directness and movement.

I supose thats bullsh#t aswell.

Yes Baros is sh##e, Houllier is sh##e because we don't have 4 Michael Owens.

Fan my a#se.

by **Wendi Richter** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:22 am

stu_the_red wrote:Owzat there are some good stats there mate, but what it doesn't show you is the fact that alot of these players were missing at the same time.

Also it strikes me that many of our injured players are ones with experience and more importantly leadership. Hamann, Carragher, Finnin, Owen and often these player were covered by those without (Pongy, Risse, Traore, Diouf). Experience and on field leadership have definitely been an issue for us this year. SG is a young captain. He needs support.

You only need to look at the effect Jones had on the defence on Sat and the way he controlled his box and marshalled the backline.

A wise head goes a long way.

Worse than avergae injuries have made us mid table where as otherwise we would be 8 points or so from top. Im not sure there can be too much arguement against that.

Fact remains tho that we are still 2-3 class players short of top cos we signed diouf, diao and cheyrou instead of the 3 we needed. I think thats the more important issue.

by **greenred** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:42 am

excuses,excuses,excuses.

by **DAV** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:50 am

i agree with u greenred and shanks
stu stop ascting like a little kid

by **DAV** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:55 am

and as for going to games im been going since i was a kid but that still dosent make me a bigger fan/supporter than someone who lives in norway who watches liverpool when they can and others who go when they can afford it
u dont value our fan base much do u

by **Owzat** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:49 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Owzat there are some good stats there mate, but what it doesn't show you is the fact that alot of these players were missing at the same time. Its not like we were missing Hamann, then we had Kewell to come in, or missing Owen and had Baros to come in or missing Finnan and had Carragher to come in.

I don't rate Finnan and Carragher as pivotal, Baros is a good young player. Owen, Hamann and Henchoz are very important to us but Owen was available, I believe, for most of the early games of the season and we lost quite a few even with him in the side. We'll write of Hamann, Carragher, Baros and Henchoz as longer injuries - Owen and Hamann crucial

Defeats key players played in

Gerrard - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton, Portsmouth, Man Utd, Southampton (6/6)

Hyypia - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton, Portsmouth, Man Utd, Southampton (6/6)

Diouf - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton, Portsmouth, Man Utd, Southampton (6/6)

Dudek - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton, Portsmouth, Man Utd (5/6)

Kewell - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton, Portsmouth, Man Utd (5/6)

Owen - Chelsea, Arsenal, Charlton (3/6)

Hamann played against Southampton (1/6), Henchoz against Chelsea and Portsmouth (2/6)

So our key 8 players weren't all absent from those defeats. Owen missed half of them but only Hamann and Henchoz missed more.

by **JBG** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:52 pm

Stu, your continued ignorance outstands me.

Read my post. My arguement that Baros is not yet a capable deputy for Owen. Baros is still a young player with loads of potential, but he still hasn't done a job for us when Owen has been injured.

Owen has always been injured and the job of the management is to recognise this fact and put a back up plan into place to accomodate this. It was clear by 2000 at the latest that Michael Owen's injuries were problematic. Houllier brought in Litmannen and Anelka as back up to Owen and Heskey (but let the declining Fowler go), and these were two TREMENDOUS signings. However, he gave neither a chance and instead signed Diouff but played him as a winger and invested in Pongolle and Baros, two youngsters for the future, leaving us desperately short of cover when Owen gets injured.

The whole country except you can see that problem Stu, and don't f##king question my credentials as a fan anymore, a#sehole. :angry:

by **JBG** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:58 pm

Once again, Owzat, you bring a bit of sense to proceedings.

I agree, Carragher and Finnan are not pivotal. Carragher had a very poor season last year and admitted himself that he was under extreme pressure. He is a good defender on his day, but he has problems going forward.

Finnan has only been here a few months, and has missed roughly half the games since he came. He has showed some flashes of what he can do, but he is far from being an important first teamer, and we can't blame our misfortunes on him being missing.

The two biggest losses have been Owen and Hamman, together with the recent loss of Gerrard.

People might add Henchoz to that list, but Houllier said this morning that Biscan is now his second centre half after Hyppia, and Henchoz has been picked at right back since he returned.

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