Liverpool FC Forum

redno7 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:55 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:18 am wrote:Arsenal have CL football Eds - thats why Suarez will go there if that is his only option - and currently they show more ambition than us

I'll be as 'nice' and 'unabusive' as I can when speaking to you for this once...     Ar$nel ARE in the CL that much we can't deny but to keep harpin on about us having no ambition is just too disrespectful to let pass. Would you please stop ramming it into every thread that we have no ambition because it's really not true benny. the owners and manager and team are trying to work with what we have and get this club back on track, that alone is showing ambition.

So could you just do this one thing for everyone on here? we are really sick of hearing you spout this all the time

thank you

One club is bidding 40mil for one player was bidding over 20mil for another player

One club is bidding 5-6-8mil for unknowns


It's clear which club means business and is showing ambition to have CL football

If you don't like me saying it then ignore me

One club has bought noone

One club has acted quickly in replacing / upgrading their squad: (everyone has their own opinions regarding if its an upgrade or downgrade) but they are replacements nonetheless

Carragher -> Toure
Carroll -> Aspas
Shelvey -> Alberto
Reina -> Mignolet

Both clubs have had bids rejected for players (Suarez, Mkhitaryan for certain - others that may or may not have happened: Soldado, Papadopolous)


Benny is entitled to his opinion of showing / not showing intent.

I believe we are showing intent - it's just difficult not being in the Champions League

redno7 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:51 am wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:43 am wrote:Rule #1 from the argument book.

If you can't win the argument, correct their grammar.

that's the one 

Is tosser two s's or four s's Or does it simply depend on how much of a tosser they are      

Note - this does not apply to anybody in particular other than whinging bickering forum spoilers who have fk all better to do with their very sad lives.

I think the club should bid £15m each for Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Iniesta and Fabregas.
That would really show our intent.

Redman in wales » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:14 am wrote:One club has bought noone

One club has acted quickly in replacing / upgrading their squad: (everyone has their own opinions regarding if its an upgrade or downgrade) but they are replacements nonetheless

Carragher -> Toure
Carroll -> Aspas
Shelvey -> Alberto
Reina -> Mignolet

Both clubs have had bids rejected for players (Suarez, Mkhitaryan for certain - others that may or may not have happened: Soldado, Papadopolous)


Benny is entitled to his opinion of showing / not showing intent.

I believe we are showing intent - it's just difficult not being in the Champions League

probably the only upgrade out of that lot is alberto for shelvey.
carragher for toure is pretty much a sideways move as is mingolet for reina.
if i was rodgers i`d go to udinese and ask them what they want for luis muriel, if they say £22m or something i`d go to madrid and say to them give us £22m and luca modric and you can have suarez.
then as we have spent nothing up to now (nett spend) i`d go out and buy papadopolous from schalke.
in that way we`d have a summer nett spend of around £20m (or whatever papadopolous costs) which is f##k all these days (norwich, southampton and swansea have probably spent more), we wouldnt be strengthening any of our rivals and we`d start the season with a team like this -

                                                                                      mingolet

                                            johnson              papadopolous         agger              enrique

                                                                     gerrard/lucas          modric

                                                                                       coutinho

                                                               aspas              sturridge         muriel

i`d be very happy with that.

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:54 am wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:43 am wrote:Rule #1 from the argument book.

If you can't win the argument, correct their grammar.

Was there an argument ?

I pointed out using facts clearly which club is showing more ambition and desire to get into 4th spot and the response was "your wrong" - obviously that reply was backed up with loads of facts from the poster to counter my post which pointed out IMO the difference in the two clubs ambition.

Unless you also believe we are showing more ambition than Arsenal in regards the players we are looking to buy

I'm not commenting on the situation you are discussing, purely an observation that when a debate ends up in a grammar correction it normally means the corrector has lost the argument.

For what it is worth, I think your view of Arsenal having more CL ambition because they happen to bid more than us this season is not only naive but extremely simplistic. Heavy player investment is not the only route to achieving the goal of CL qualification, Borussia Dortmund is a prime example of how squad that has been trained to play together and implement a sound footballing philosophy can achieve the same as a team who buy their way to success.

You may like to habitually point out the teams deficiencies, but the reality is most of us see the improve and vision Rodgers is trying to achieve here. Whilst we would all like to see an abundance of money available to spend, there isn't that money available. If weren't so fortunate to have a manager with an excellent coaching philosophy maybe my view would change, but fortunately we do and I firmly believe, under FSG and Rodger's direction, we will qualify for the CL either this season or next.

With or without Suarez I think we have the potential to do well next season.  Obviously if he leaves we'd need to spend and bring in another player or two.

We need Sturridge, Coutinho, Henderson and Gerrard starting the season like they finished last season.  (Gerrard's form at the start of last season was very poor IMO)
We need Allen to get back to his form from early last season.
We need Agger to stay fit again for a full season.
We need Lucas to return to top form which hopefully a pre season will help him achieve. 
We need Mignolet to settle very quickly!
We have to hope whoever our 2 starting CB's are come August will gel quickly. 

If all these things happen, we could do well.
Personally, I think we'll do a bit better next season but still fall short of top 4.  Unless of course we sign some really quality players in the next couple of weeks.

One team in a league where it's really only been dominated by one other team - Dortmund did great - but is there an instance of it happening in this country whilst there are 4/5 teams spending heavily to get the quality players required to get CL.

It's great having a vision but its results that matter and what actually happens in reality. When was the last team to get CL without spending money ? In this country as well not in Germany or Italy or Spain.

I will bet you now money to charity that we won't be in the CL this season or next or even within 5 years or whilst we don't buy established players

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:08 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:54 am wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:43 am wrote:Rule #1 from the argument book.

If you can't win the argument, correct their grammar.

Was there an argument ?

I pointed out using facts clearly which club is showing more ambition and desire to get into 4th spot and the response was "your wrong" - obviously that reply was backed up with loads of facts from the poster to counter my post which pointed out IMO the difference in the two clubs ambition.

Unless you also believe we are showing more ambition than Arsenal in regards the players we are looking to buy

I'm not commenting on the situation you are discussing, purely an observation that when a debate ends up in a grammar correction it normally means the corrector has lost the argument.

For what it is worth, I think your view of Arsenal having more CL ambition because they happen to bid more than us this season is not only naive but extremely simplistic. Heavy player investment is not the only route to achieving the goal of CL qualification, Borussia Dortmund is a prime example of how squad that has been trained to play together and implement a sound footballing philosophy can achieve the same as a team who buy their way to success.

You may like to habitually point out the teams deficiencies, but the reality is most of us see the improve and vision Rodgers is trying to achieve here. Whilst we would all like to see an abundance of money available to spend, there isn't that money available. If weren't so fortunate to have a manager with an excellent coaching philosophy maybe my view would change, but fortunately we do and I firmly believe, under FSG and Rodger's direction, we will qualify for the CL either this season or next.

i dont think the `dortmund project` would have worked in england, there are too many clubs who would have poached their players as soon as they showed any sign of promise. plus it`s a lot harder to qualify for the CL in england, i dont know which is the best league in the world but england is the toughest league to qualify for the CL.

There's spending to show intent and there's bringing the right players in. Two different things. *Disclaimer - the following this not not a manager debate, but a spending debate*

Kenny spent £35M on Carroll, £20M on Downing, £16M on Henderson and £8M on Adam and we finished 8th. In 3 seasons under John Henry's ownership, we've spent £70M net. (£185M spent, £115M received)

I think what BR is trying to do is find / bring the right players in, but it's proving hard to get the top quality ones without the lure of Champions League. Obviously there are those that will sign, such as Suarez when he arrived here, or Paulinho for Spurs, but those top quality players willing to move to a club not in Europe are few and far between.

Oh we have definitely spent some money at times - we paid over inflated prices for the wrong players - we ***** up no doubt about that. But has that scared the owners into not spending big on the right players ? If we could guarentee that each decent priced signing would be Coutinho then spending 6-10mil will do us but we all know the majority of players in that price range turn out to be lower quality players. You get what you pay for. It FSG thought that one spend would do the business then they are a bit blind to the reality.

FSG don't have a problem spending for the Red Sox - a 100 mil contract for one player !

A lot more money arrived into the club this summer - have to question where it is

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:10 pm wrote:Oh we have definitely spent some money at times - we paid over inflated prices for the wrong players - we ***** up no doubt about that. But has that scared the owners into not spending big on the right players ? If we could guarentee that each decent priced signing would be Coutinho then spending 6-10mil will do us but we all know the majority of players in that price range turn out to be lower quality players. You get what you pay for. It FSG thought that one spend would do the business then they are a bit blind to the reality.

FSG don't have a problem spending for the Red Sox - a 100 mil contract for one player !

A lot more money arrived into the club this summer - have to question where it is

I think it has kinda scarred them yes.

You dont always get what you pay for. (examples in my post above) as often you pay an inflated price. They've seen what spending £35M has done. They've seen what a £20m winger looks like.  - I honestly think they're being extra cautious now because of the bad purchases of the past.

Then when you think you've found the right player and bid £20M - he goes and choses a team in the champions league. There are other names that we've branded about - or the media have linked us to - but even after we bid, they might not even want to come here. And I know we can say "well, we'll never know unless we try" I suppose what we're trying to avoid is being knocked back by more players, or paying over the odds again for someone who's not available.

there's still time and according to BR himself the intent is still there to buy 2 exciting first teamers.

FSG have the right ideas for us, what they do with the red sox isn't any concern of ours. separate company/businesses/accounts/plans/direction all together.

I mentioned this briefly in the Rumours thread a while back. Arsenal may have been linked with Higuain and Suarez and Rooney but still havent got their men.

Trying to get Suarez,Higuain and Rooney wont make your team stronger if you dont actually sign the player.

At the moment our squad looks stronger than Arsenals did if you compare both at the start of the last season.

Do you really think our squad looks stronger ? Why did they finish in top 4 and a fair distance ahead of us ?

The only way to judge the squads is the results on the pitch and its clear they were better than us over the season. We werent close to them - we werent even close to 5th.