Liverpool FC Forum

I'm not sure that we have no chance of finishing fourth if he goes to Arsenal. Podolski, Giroud and Walcott all got into double figures in the premiership last season (11-14 goals) with 24 starts appearances each. If Suarez goes there and starts every game after his ban that will mean at least one of those will have to be left out or they'll have to rotate them.

From a tactical perspective it may not work for them to have Suarez and Walcott starting that many games together. They may not actually score that many more goals than they did last season as a result of having to rotate to keep everyone happy. I still think that if we get £50 million for him or whatever the fee turns out to be we would use that money to strengthen and with the progress made at the end of last season without Suarez I think we could still compete for fourth.

The grass is not always greener on the other side as was the case with the Torres deal. If it happens I think we will move on and get stronger as we have done in the past.

mart » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:08 pm wrote:It says a lot about our ambitions if we sell Suarez, especially if he goes to Arsenal.

It will be a disaster. As a club we will be giving up on cl football, the europa will be the best we can hope for but in reality we will probably finish in much the same position we did last season. As things stand I dont think we are any stronger, lose suarez and we are definitely weaker with little hope of bringing in a player of the same standard. I would prefer to sell to real for 30m as selling to arsenal confirms us as a mid table side.

He could have just been sulking because he did not play until the 73 minute. He was warming up at half time. Just saying!

No lessons learned from Suarez history
by Rory Smith

This is all starting to feel vaguely familiar. If the build-up to Luis Suarez's seemingly inevitable exit from Liverpool mirrored that of his departure from Ajax - the wonderful goal-scoring form, the suggestion that he cannot fulfil his ambitions at his current club, the sudden taste for human flesh - then the act of it may well draw from another chapter in his career.

On the surface, Arsenal's reported bid of £40,000,001 for Liverpool's best player is a sly dig, a cheap shot, a light dash of humour in the otherwise po-faced gloom of the transfer market. That is certainly how John W. Henry -- Liverpool's increasingly absentee principal owner -- took it, judging by his response to the offer on Twitter.

Appearances, though, can be deceptive. Arsenal are not messing around. Their bid was not a joke. It was, as Brendan Rodgers might say, all part of the dance.

There is a clause in Suarez's contract at Anfield - signed just last summer, lest we forget - which deals with what happens in the event of an offer arriving for the striker which exceeds the nice round figure of £40 million.

Liverpool believe that clause stipulates that, should such a bid arrive, they are duty-bound to consider it and, whatever decision they reach, to inform the forward that he has been the subject of an offer. Quite how this differs from what normally happens is unclear.

Suarez's representatives - most notably his agent, Pere Guardiola - see it rather differently. They believe that if Liverpool receive an offer over and above that £40 million watermark, the club have to allow Suarez to speak to his suitor. They do not have to accept a bid, but by granting permission, one presumes they open a de facto negotiation with the buying club and give Suarez the chance to establish whether he wants to push for a move. Quite how this differs from what normally happens is unclear.

It is baffling that such a situation can arise, in which a document that is - one imagines - supposed to be legally watertight could contain a clause which is open to such vastly different interpretations, and it is equally confusing as to quite why a club or a player would insert what appears to be such a pointless stipulation.

That said, this does appear to be the summer of ineffective clauses, as Arsenal know all too well. After all, Arsene Wenger's team have a buy-back option on Cesc Fabregas that allows them to match any offer that Barcelona receive for the midfielder and gives them first refusal should Fabregas tell the Spanish side he wants to return to North London. Again, quite what this accomplishes is anyone's guess.

Regardless, ours not to reason why and all that: The clause does exist, and so does the confusion over what it means. And so Arsenal - presumably encouraged by Guardiola - took what they, quite understandably, viewed as the only step that would help them establish quite what the situation is, and submitted a bid of over £40 million. Only just over, but still.

Liverpool, as was to be expected, stood by their interpretation of the clause and rejected the offer; judging by Henry's response, Arsenal may have damaged their hopes of holding amicable talks with the Anfield side should they choose to return with a higher bid in the coming days and weeks.

That may not matter. Suarez has been in this situation before. When his first European club, Groningen, turned down an offer from Ajax for his services in 2007, the player engaged his legal team and took his club to court.

He did not win the case, but he had forced Groningen's hand. When Ajax returned with a better offer - not exactly an extortionate one, but a better one - they felt compelled to cut their losses and accept. Arsenal's bid, likewise, may have been designed to give Suarez the ammunition he needs to force a move out. He had already been in touch with his lawyers before news of the offer broke.

This is, whoever you support, a sad state of affairs. It is sad because it means Suarez's relationship with Liverpool will end on a sour note. It is sad because the club, who stood by him even as he threatened to drag their name through the mud, will see their support thrown back in their face.

It is sad because it offers an indictment of the reality of modern football, that a player will do all he can to avoid handing in a transfer request so as to remain eligible for all of the loyalty bonuses inserted into the contract he is trying to break.

It is sad because this saga could drag on for much of the rest of the summer, and there is nothing more mind-numbing than an incremental transfer soap opera, where every day brings no light but so much heat.

It is not just sad for Liverpool, because - make no mistake about this - it could happen to any club, such is the power that players hold. It might not be Manchester United or Manchester City or Chelsea or Arsenal this time, but should any of those teams spend more than a year out of the Champions League, they can expect to find themselves in exactly the same position.

It is sad because others may learn from Suarez; it is sad because it offers a window on how little players value the teams they play for and the shirts they wear.

But mostly it is sad because football simply does not learn. Clubs increasingly resemble partners trapped in unhappy relationships, convinced they will be different, that they will be the one, that they can take the bad boy and make him good, that they can take the journeyman and make him stay. They cannot.

Suarez has already forced his way out of two clubs - Groningen and, to a lesser extent, Ajax - and seems to be at least paving the way to crowbar his way from a third. He is a Champions League player, and Liverpool are not a Champions League club. It is understandable that he wants to go. But should the manner in which he is trying to achieve it not raise a red flag at the Emirates?

There is no morality in football. That is no great surprise, no great revelation. Liverpool were widely and rightly chastised for their handling of both Suarez's major transgressions in English football, but that they reacted in such a way is not a curiously Scouse thing; circling the wagons - and possessing fans whose loyalty is blind and forgiving - is not unique to Merseyside. The vast majority of clubs would have responded in exactly the same way; if you believe your club is different, you're a dreamer or a fool.

Likewise, it is not just Arsenal who would consider buying someone with such a chequered past. Manchester City have made their interest plain to Suarez on a number of occasions since the incident in which he racially abused Patrice Evra at Anfield. Chelsea - given the John Terry incident - would find it hard to scramble onto the moral high ground. Manchester United have overlooked players attacking a fan and missing a drugs test. Maybe there is a line, somewhere, but it is blurred, indistinct.

Arsenal being prepared to overlook ethical considerations is one thing - a necessary, if unpalatable, reality - but their ability to turn a blind eye to Suarez's transfer history is more worrying. He has already forced his way out of two clubs - his departure from Ajax was less acrimonious but just as compulsory - and now seems to be paving the way to do the same to a third.

This prompts a question that, at some point, Arsenal really should have asked themselves: What's to say he won't do the same to us? Even if he leads them to a Premier League and Champions League double, there is always going to be someone who will offer more money, more glamour, more sunshine.

Why would they be any different than Liverpool, than Ajax, than Groningen? What makes them think they will be the exception? Even if they are prepared to spend all that money to bring Suarez to the Emirates, despite all of his baggage, is signing him not a guarantee of trouble down the road? This feels familiar already. It is hard to escape the idea that Suarez, and his clubs, are condemned to repeat history, time and again - less as tragedy, more as farce.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcuni ... 1?cc=5739#

Luis Suarez: Liverpool striker can hold Arsenal talks after £40m bid

By David Ornstein and Ben Smith BBC Sport
Comments (2110)

Luis Suarez will be allowed to hold talks with Arsenal but Liverpool have no intention of selling their striker until his £50m-plus valuation is met.

Arsenal's club-record bid of £40m plus £1 was firmly rejected by Liverpool but Suarez now wants to hold talks with the north London club.


The approach triggered a clause in his contract that means he has been told of the bid and can now talk to Arsenal.

But Liverpool will not sell him until Arsenal up their offer significantly.

On Wednesday Suarez made his first appearance for Liverpool since his infamous bite on Chelsea defender Branislav Ivanovic's arm last season, coming off the bench in an 18-minute cameo during the Premier League club's 2-0 win over Melbourne Victory  at the MCG.

With Liverpool 1-0 up, the Uruguayan laid on the Reds second for new signing Iago Aspas late in the match.

After the game Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers said: "There's nothing new to report, he [Suarez] is very much a Liverpool player and over the course of the next couple of weeks we've got to get him up to speed."

Rodgers did, however, remind Suarez of the debt he feels the player owes the Liverpool fans who have stood by him after two seasons of controversy.

"The support he has received from the supporters and the people of the city of Liverpool has been unrivalled," Rodgers added.

"In this period of time he's missed a lot of games for the club through various reasons. The people have stood by him like a son and really looked after him. Whatever happens in the coming weeks that will be in his mind because it's something you can never forget."


Liverpool have now turned down two offers from the Gunners, who are keen to boost their attacking options, while Real Madrid, now managed by Carlo Ancelotti, also remain interested in the player but have yet to make a formal offer.

Following Arsenal's most recent approach, a post on Liverpool owner John Henry's Twitter page  read: "What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?"

It is unclear whether Henry is talking about Arsenal's attempts to sign Suarez or their valuation of the player.

While Liverpool remain determined to keep Suarez, who scored 30 goals for the club in 44 appearances last season, their resolve is likely to be tested if the bids continue to rise. Should Arsenal persist and have an improved bid accepted, it would more than double their previous highest initial outlay on a transfer.
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The Gunners, whose first offer for Suarez was £30m, paid £17.5m to Sevilla for Jose Antonio Reyes in 2004.

Suarez wants to leave Anfield to play for a Champions League club despite only signing a new long-term deal last summer.

Speculation has grown about Suarez's future since he was punished with a 10-game ban at the end of April for biting Ivanovic.

The striker still has to serve six games of that suspension and was also banned in 2011 after being found guilty of racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

Suarez joined Liverpool from Ajax in January 2011 in a £22.7m deal.

when he was back home in uruguay he made it pretty clear anytime a microphone was anywhere near him that he wants out so it`s no great surprise to see him acting a bit moody in pre season.
but at the end of the day if we are going to have any chance of getting back into the top 4 we need him to stay, even if we got big money for him we`ve seen how hard it is to bring in a suitable replacement.
initially when i heard he wants out i did want to sell him but thats when i thought we might be bringing in someone like muriel or someone of that ilk to replace him but looking at the names being bandied about i`d much rather have suarez, even a sulking one.
he`ll get over it.
whatever happens we shouldn`t sell him to another english club, that would be an insult to the fans who pay a lot of money to watch a team they assume is doing everything within its power to be successful, selling your best player to one of your direct rivals is about as unambitious as you can get.
united are playing hardball with rooney and spurs are adamant that bale is going nowhere (and they stuck to their guns with modric) so why should we be any different?

If 95 thousand fans singing YNWA in unison doesn't give Luis a hard on then I'm afraid he's already lost..
Absolutely awe inspiring rendition of our anthem ,that would have rendered the most cold hearted of
creatures amongst us absolutely dumbstruck ....... Love this club to bits 

Because both the Mancs and Spurs are both standing in best positions thats allow them to keep their players - Bale also hasnt been bleating on all summer - in fact not heard one single word from him. Dont think the situations can be compared. And if we are being honest - are Arsenal really a direct rival currently ? Our direct rival last season was the the BS - where werent close to Arsenal and havent been for 3 seasons now

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:15 pm wrote:Because both the Mancs and Spurs are both standing in best positions thats allow them to keep their players - Bale also hasnt been bleating on all summer - in fact not heard one single word from him. Dont think the situations can be compared. And if we are being honest - are Arsenal really a direct rival currently ? Our direct rival last season was the the BS - where werent close to Arsenal and havent been for 3 seasons now

what are you saying? you want us to sell him to arsenal?

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:19 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:15 pm wrote:Because both the Mancs and Spurs are both standing in best positions thats allow them to keep their players - Bale also hasnt been bleating on all summer - in fact not heard one single word from him. Dont think the situations can be compared. And if we are being honest - are Arsenal really a direct rival currently ? Our direct rival last season was the the BS - where werent close to Arsenal and havent been for 3 seasons now

what are you saying? you want us to sell him to arsenal?

No i dont want him sold to Arsenal - deepest darkest Russia will do for me

well we are all in agreement then.
selling him to arsenal would be an insult to the fans who expect the club to do everything within their power to finish above the likes of arsenal, selling our best player to them would be akin to this club waving the white flag.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:26 pm wrote:well we are all in agreement then.
selling him to arsenal would be an insult to the fans who expect the club to do everything within their power to finish above the likes of arsenal, selling our best player to them would be akin to this club waving the white flag.

The club have been doing that for while now anyway.

Personally, I'd reject whatever offer Arsenal throw our way unless it's 55mill ... They might not have been our rivals in the last couple of seasons and our points tally might have been significantly lower than theirs, but realistically, they are the most likely of the top4 to drop down a level if they dont go out and spend big on a top player, and Suarez is one of the best in the world.

His actions have been disappointing to say the least, but his character has been questionable from day1 and we -more or less- knew what we were buying into before bringing him here. He has played well last season and -imo- he'd play well next season if he stayed here regardless of his desire to be elsewhere.

I have been disappointed in our dealings in the transfer market so far and my lack of confidence in the manager/management's ability to spend whatever we get for him well is one of the main reasons behind my reluctance to see him leave regardless of the destination.

friendlyguy33 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:31 pm wrote:From a tactical perspective it may not work for them to have Suarez and Walcott starting that many games together. They may not actually score that many more goals than they did last season as a result of having to rotate to keep everyone happy. I still think that if we get £50 million for him or whatever the fee turns out to be we would use that money to strengthen and with the progress made at the end of last season without Suarez I think we could still compete for fourth.

I dont think Arsenal will have any problems starting Suarez in every match and rotating the rest.

We might get 50 mill for him, but unfortunately there are not a lot of worldclass players lining up to play for us, and there certainly wont be a lot more of them once we sell our best player.

mart

We might get 50 mill for him, but unfortunately there are not a lot of worldclass players lining up to play for us, and there certainly wont be a lot more of them once we sell our best player.

exactly.