Liverpool FC Forum

here we go again...

Barring a spell last season where I thought he did an OK job at filling in and making modest amends for his (shocking) first season, I think he's been distinctly average for us at best. We signed him primarily to provide end product, and to be the man who would help unleash the aerial force that was Andy Carroll. It was supposed to be a winning combination but it just never happened -- not all his fault, right enough. Carroll never really got the opportunities and when he did failed to make enough of an impact often enough. Nevertheless, a return of zero league goals/assists in his first season for a £20m winger was/is an absolute joke.

Fair enough we've moved on since then and he does have pretty good all round ability for a winger, is experienced and could be a better bet than some of the names we're being linked with but at 28/29 he isn't going to significantly improve, his wages will be ridiculous and there's always the risk he reverts to being a useless pussy. Just as important is what the manager is actually looking for in a player. If we're building for the future, is it better to get those players in now and start dispensing with some of the older and costlier ones like Downing, while we can get some money for them, so he can mould them to fit his vision? I think we need both experience and some new players, and getting that balance right will be an important part of how we fair in the coming years. Downing for me, though, is anything but indispensible and on balance I would be tempted to get rid, take £6m or thereabouts, save on the wages and re-invest.

i`ve just watched a load of youtube clips of that atsu (some of them 20 minutes long!) and he doesnt look anything particularly special to me, he looks quick but thats about it. i know youtube clips arent meant to be the best way to judge a player`s ability but thats because everyone looks good on youtube......bar aspas and atsu that is.
at least that luis alberto looks good, got a bit of class about him that lad.

Alberto does look good compared to the other two.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:38 pm wrote:Alberto does look good compared to the other two.

Agreed, however I think the other two would fit better into Rodgers' philosophy than the way they have played before.  Quick touch, get into open space type of players...IE not Downing's game.


That said, I wouldn't like to see Downing sold unless we were bringing in a true proven player.  Selling him now with all of the newcomers in the squad would not make much sense to me for a couple of reasons. 

1.  We won't get near what we paid for him, so might as well have stick around till January at least to see how the new players are doing.  It'll get some value out of what we paid.

2.  linked to 1, squad turnover, while needed, should not go overboard.  A settled player can help others settle in

Unless we were to receive an offer too good to turn down, keep him.

That is my exact feelings as well mate.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:48 pm wrote:If judging a player is represented by what clubs are chasing them then a lot of players wouldn't be very highly judged.

That's quite ironic coming from you, unless we're not buying someone who either Man Citeh or Chelsea are after you bemoan our signings, generally speaking.

Now that Downing is unable to court interest you pull out this pearl of contradictory wisdom.

thats the exception to the rule though, in footy you generally have to pay for quality, hence all the rich clubs are at the top of the game.
spending £10m on two starting XI wingers isnt exactly a statement of intent is it? how the mighty have fallen

We spent 35 million on a striker, that was a massive statement - how did that work out again?

LFC2007 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:35 pm wrote:Barring a spell last season where I thought he did an OK job at filling in and making modest amends for his (shocking) first season, I think he's been distinctly average for us at best. We signed him primarily to provide end product, and to be the man who would help unleash the aerial force that was Andy Carroll. It was supposed to be a winning combination but it just never happened -- not all his fault, right enough. Carroll never really got the opportunities and when he did failed to make enough of an impact often enough. Nevertheless, a return of zero league goals/assists in his first season for a £20m winger was/is an absolute joke.

Fair enough we've moved on since then and he does have pretty good all round ability for a winger, is experienced and could be a better bet than some of the names we're being linked with but at 28/29 he isn't going to significantly improve, his wages will be ridiculous and there's always the risk he reverts to being a useless pussy. Just as important is what the manager is actually looking for in a player. If we're building for the future, is it better to get those players in now and start dispensing with some of the older and costlier ones like Downing, while we can get some money for them, so he can mould them to fit his vision? I think we need both experience and some new players, and getting that balance right will be an important part of how we fair in the coming years. Downing for me, though, is anything but indispensible and on balance I would be tempted to get rid, take £6m or thereabouts, save on the wages and re-invest.

Good post.

Good to see you posting.

Kenny Kan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:44 pm wrote:

thats the exception to the rule though, in footy you generally have to pay for quality, hence all the rich clubs are at the top of the game.
spending £10m on two starting XI wingers isnt exactly a statement of intent is it? how the mighty have fallen

We spent 35 million on a striker, that was a massive statement - how did that work out again?

so what? do you think we are the only club to waste money on an expensive flop?
if you want to be a top club you take it on the chin and move on like the likes of madrid and chelsea have done when they bought kaka and schevchenko.
anyway if you look at the whole torres/suarez/carroll thing we have done well out of those deals, we spent £24m on torres and if we sell the two players we replaced him with this summer we will bank around £60m-£70m, for all your whinging we have nearly tripled our investment.

Berbatov is a massive example, wasnt it 30 million and sold to fulham for 2.5 million

cardiff-red » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:56 am wrote:Berbatov is a massive example, wasnt it 30 million and sold to fulham for 2.5 million

Not like he scored 50 goals or something during his time with United.

Kenny Kan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:44 pm wrote:

thats the exception to the rule though, in footy you generally have to pay for quality, hence all the rich clubs are at the top of the game.
spending £10m on two starting XI wingers isnt exactly a statement of intent is it? how the mighty have fallen

We spent 35 million on a striker, that was a massive statement - how did that work out again?

When was the last time a 5 million signing worked out?

Spending no more than 10 million on a player isn't the way forward. I don't mind buying players like that but big money must be spent. Wisely of course, not on Carrolls and the like.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:49 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:44 pm wrote:

thats the exception to the rule though, in footy you generally have to pay for quality, hence all the rich clubs are at the top of the game.
spending £10m on two starting XI wingers isnt exactly a statement of intent is it? how the mighty have fallen

We spent 35 million on a striker, that was a massive statement - how did that work out again?

so what? do you think we are the only club to waste money on an expensive flop?
if you want to be a top club you take it on the chin and move on like the likes of madrid and chelsea have done when they bought kaka and schevchenko.
anyway if you look at the whole torres/suarez/carroll thing we have done well out of those deals, we spent £24m on torres and if we sell the two players we replaced him with this summer we will bank around £60m-£70m, for all your whinging we have nearly tripled our investment.

"So what" doesn't guarantee that spending big will get success or good players; especially when we don't have the money to lose like Madrid and Chelsea. I understand a person like yourself will find it hard to acknowledge this which is probably why I'm better off banging my head against a brick wall than conveying this message to you.

On the point of whinging, I'm not the one who seems happy to whinge about our summer signings because they don't cost 30M a piece, best look in the mirror.

damjan193 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:03 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:44 pm wrote:

thats the exception to the rule though, in footy you generally have to pay for quality, hence all the rich clubs are at the top of the game.
spending £10m on two starting XI wingers isnt exactly a statement of intent is it? how the mighty have fallen

We spent 35 million on a striker, that was a massive statement - how did that work out again?

When was the last time a 5 million signing worked out?

Spending no more than 10 million on a player isn't the way forward. I don't mind buying players like that but big money must be spent. Wisely of course, not on Carrolls and the like.

The quick reply to that would be Michu and Cabaye.