Liverpool FC Forum

Kenny Kan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:43 pm wrote:

LFC2007 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:41 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm wrote: It's not up to LFC alone to eradicate diving, so until something is done by the poxy F.A and bearing in mind we have be given unjust decisions by the refs already this season, I'm in the camp 'if you can't beat them join them'.

Thanks for clarifying. You've made it crystal clear what your view is. I mistakenly assumed that all Liverpool fans who had any inkling of a clue were against diving, but alas there is at least one supporter in our fanbase who considers it acceptable behaviour under the circumstances.

No worries, I take it you were fully against, and condemned Stevie's starfish in Istanbul then?

As I said, any time a player dishonestly tries to gain an advantage it diminishes their achievement, so if Gerrard took a dive for the penalty in Istanbul, the same applies in that situation as much as any other. It doesn't mean he deserves to be castigated and it does't mean that the comeback couldn't still have been achieved, but it is nevertheless the case that anyone who dives is doing themselves and the game a disservice. Suarez is particularly prone to this sort of behaviour and that's why he comes in for more criticism than other players in the team. It's absolutely no excuse that other players do it, in the same way that it's no excuse for an athlete to take performance enhancing drugs just because their competitors do.

As I said, any time a player dishonestly tries to gain an advantage it diminishes their achievement, so if Gerrard took a dive for the penalty in Istanbul, the same applies in that situation as much as any other. It doesn't mean he deserves to be castigated and it does't mean that the comeback couldn't still have been achieved, but it is nevertheless the case that anyone who dives is doing themselves and the game a disservice. Suarez is particularly prone to this sort of behaviour and that's why he comes in for more criticism than other players in the team. It's absolutely no excuse that other players do it, in the same way that it's no excuse for an athlete to take performance enhancing drugs just because their competitors do.

So obviously not. Gerrard went down rather theatrically yet you place the word "if" into your sentence, trying to doubt whether he dived or not in the first place. The fact you even hint this doubt & denial, smacks of double standards and even though you've tried to diplomatically navigate your way round a simple yes/no answer; you've produced the hypocrisy many others have displayed on here while condemning Suarez.

As for my 'if you can't beat them join them' phrase you so eloquently highlighted, well, I'm of the belief everyone player and team should have an equal playing field to be reffed upon. If the footballing authorities do nothing about bias reffing as seen in the Norwich game in contrast to the Valencia dive at Anfield, then I believe players have the right to level up the playing field if the refs can't. This, is perhaps a petulant stance to take but if nobody does anything about it, the F.A/refs/whomever, players are almost encouraged to do this because teams like Manchester United and Chelsea have been getting away with diving for years. So it's up to the players themselves to 'even the playing field up' if the authorities can't.

It's an eye for an eye attitude - the kind of attitude I generally live by in life. If you would like to character assassinate me on that, that's fine but rest assured I'm not the hypocrite here trying to justify double standards.

devaney » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:27 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:25 pm wrote:So you haven't confirmed if you have fully backed every player who has played for the club

Whilst the club were struggling last season did you fully support all players and the manager himself a true legend of the club

When you answer that then you decide how good your support is !

You seem to have failed to comply with my last simple instruction - FUK OFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He wont, he is like a rash, irritating. The more you scratch, the more irritating he becomes.

Kenny Kan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:04 am wrote:

As I said, any time a player dishonestly tries to gain an advantage it diminishes their achievement, so if Gerrard took a dive for the penalty in Istanbul, the same applies in that situation as much as any other. It doesn't mean he deserves to be castigated and it does't mean that the comeback couldn't still have been achieved, but it is nevertheless the case that anyone who dives is doing themselves and the game a disservice. Suarez is particularly prone to this sort of behaviour and that's why he comes in for more criticism than other players in the team. It's absolutely no excuse that other players do it, in the same way that it's no excuse for an athlete to take performance enhancing drugs just because their competitors do.

So obviously not. Gerrard went down rather theatrically yet you place the word "if" into your sentence, trying to doubt whether he dived or not in the first place. The fact you even hint this doubt & denial, smacks of double standards and even though you've tried to diplomatically navigate your way round a simple yes/no answer; you've produced the hypocrisy many others have displayed on here while condemning Suarez.

As for my 'if you can't beat them join them' phrase you so eloquently highlighted, well, I'm of the belief everyone player and team should have an equal playing field to be reffed upon. If the footballing authorities do nothing about bias reffing as seen in the Norwich game in contrast to the Valencia dive at Anfield, then I believe players have the right to level up the playing field if the refs can't. This, is perhaps a petulant stance to take but if nobody does anything about it, the F.A/refs/whomever, players are almost encouraged to do this because teams like Manchester United and Chelsea have been getting away with diving for years. So it's up to the players themselves to 'even the playing field up' if the authorities can't.

It's an eye for an eye attitude - the kind of attitude I generally live by in life. If you would like to character assassinate me on that, that's fine but rest assured I'm not the hypocrite here trying to justify double standards.

Most people like to keep things simple: "diving is cheating and thats that" or "hes got a reputation through his own actions and thats all there is to it". These people are obviously happy with their limited views and knowledge and are pleased that they alone have the answer to how things work.
Closed mindedness is no recommendation and thinking things are black and white is bordering on delusional. I do not condone cheating, however Im a realist living in the real world. It is clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that Suarez and indeed LFC are being unfairly treated, or even cheated by those with agendas and wickedness in their heart. We are not a dishonest team and although there have been incidents of "bending the rules" we work on the premise that we win on merit. It is a cornerstone of LFC and something which puts us way ahead of the likes of united no matter how any trophies they win. Suarez has to modify his behaviour, no doubt, but it has been proven time after time that sticking to the rules and not cheating has handed us a disadvantage. I dont think that we should make it compulsory that we expect our players to try and gain an unfair disadvantage, but we must not slaughter them if they think that playing fair is actually costing us decisions and ultimately points.
The onus is not just on us. Referees and the FA should step in and say publicly that Liverpool Football club is not being victimised and that fair play will be rewarded by fair decisions. I will not hold my breath for this to happen. In the meantime, while the world and its mate are slagging us off we should not fall into the trap of agreeing with them. This is not because we dont see their point. Its because we dont want to give them ammunition to criticise us even more than they are at the moment. If people cant, or wont see that then they are not true supporters.
Its as simple as that

The touch on Gerrard in Istanbul could easily be compared to the Johnson Valencia penalty recently. Johnson brushed his hand against Valencia's back and he went down. Gerrard felt a slight touch and he went down. If neither of them had gone down they wouldn't have been penalties. Were the fouls sufficient enough to put the players off? In my opinion they probably were and they would both have been complete mugs if they hadn't gone down. These days the game is played at very high speed and defenders know very well that the slightest touch and what can appear the most innocuous of fouls could easily put a player off his stride.Time and time again defenders get away with questionable tactics. Call them professional fouls, taking one for the team, operating within the rules or downright cheating it is up to you. What is certain is that defenders are no better than strikers and just how many of them get castigated in the way that Luis Suarez has been. Pulis the idiot believes  that Suarez should be banned for diving but when his team benefits or his defenders are kicking the life out of the opposition then that is acceptable.Is it any wonder that players stretch the boundaries when they have to listen to the likes of Pulis,Moyes and Ferguson with their sanctimonious and hypocritical slant on the game.And don't forget to add Allardyce to the list!

devaney » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:18 am wrote:The touch on Gerrard in Istanbul could easily be compared to the Johnson Valencia penalty recently. Johnson brushed his hand against Valencia's back and he went down. Gerrard felt a slight touch and he went down. If neither of them had gone down they wouldn't have been penalties. Were the fouls sufficient enough to put the players off? In my opinion they probably were and they would both have been complete mugs if they hadn't gone down. These days the game is played at very high speed and defenders know very well that the slightest touch and what can appear the most innocuous of fouls could easily put a player off his stride.Time and time again defenders get away with questionable tactics. Call them professional fouls, taking one for the team, operating within the rules or downright cheating it is up to you. What is certain is that defenders are no better than strikers and just how many of them get castigated in the way that Luis Suarez has been. Pulis the idiot believes  that Suarez should be banned for diving but when his team benefits or his defenders are kicking the life out of the opposition then that is acceptable.Is it any wonder that players stretch the boundaries when they have to listen to the likes of Pulis,Moyes and Ferguson with their sanctimonious and hypocritical slant on the game.And don't forget to add Allardyce to the list!

To be fair I expect it from those phony cu'nts
What I dont expect is for Liverpool supporters to agree with them and blame one of our own players for the shit-storm that has hit us for something that is rife in football.

Kenny Kan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:04 am wrote:

So obviously not. Gerrard went down rather theatrically yet you place the word "if" into your sentence, trying to doubt whether he dived or not in the first place. The fact you even hint this doubt & denial, smacks of double standards and even though you've tried to diplomatically navigate your way round a simple yes/no answer; you've produced the hypocrisy many others have displayed on here while condemning Suarez.

As for my 'if you can't beat them join them' phrase you so eloquently highlighted, well, I'm of the belief everyone player and team should have an equal playing field to be reffed upon. If the footballing authorities do nothing about bias reffing as seen in the Norwich game in contrast to the Valencia dive at Anfield, then I believe players have the right to level up the playing field if the refs can't. This, is perhaps a petulant stance to take but if nobody does anything about it, the F.A/refs/whomever, players are almost encouraged to do this because teams like Manchester United and Chelsea have been getting away with diving for years. So it's up to the players themselves to 'even the playing field up' if the authorities can't.

It's an eye for an eye attitude - the kind of attitude I generally live by in life. If you would like to character assassinate me on that, that's fine but rest assured I'm not the hypocrite here trying to justify double standards.

There is no double standard on my part. I said that if Gerrard dived to get the pen in Istanbul, then like any other player, that is wrong and it does the game a disservice. I said 'if' because at the time it appeared to me that Gerrard surged into the box at a fast pace and was knocked out of his stride by Gattuso, but if somebody shows me conclusive proof that this wasn't the case, then I'm happy to accept that. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that cheating is unacceptable.

This doesn't mean that player's who dive are evil, despicable or worthy of abuse (though our supporters do generally speak of the likes of Drogba, Robben, Nani, Ronaldo, Young etc in such terms -- players whose on-pitch antics you would encourage own players to emulate), but there's no question in my mind that cheating isn't good for the game. The fact that this even has to be underlined is, IMO, an absolute joke, but it needs saying when you have supporters who either can't give a straight answer, or who, in your case, actually support cheating. Strange times.

devaney » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:53 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:36 pm wrote:

Greavesie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:33 pm wrote:will you two chill out? I've nothing against Benny but he's notoriously difficult to debate with, he just answers with questions all the time 

I'm certainly not going to be quiet whilst someone lectures me about supporting players when he did nothing but slag off both Carroll and Kenny last season relentlessly throughout the season. That's called being a hypocrite.

I really can't be bothered with your shight but I'm not accepting a total fabrication of the truth from a di.ck like you. Ok fukwit you say "I DID NOTHING BUT SLAG OFF BOTH CARROLL AND KENNY LAST SEASON RELENTLESSLY" which is absolute fkg nonsense so let me have some relentless examples of me slagging them both off. Relentless by the way is your behaviour on this thread which is pathetic in the extreme.

Tp be honest you're both as bad as each other, and the whole you're a bad fan line is incredibly tedious.

.   in your case, actually support cheating. Strange times. 

I support equality among individual players and teams. As it stands LFC have been on the end of some bias decisions. That's not fairness within the game. If the refs can't officiate impartially then I for one don't blame Suarez for his actions. You on the other hand like to prattle on from your "objective" moral high grounded point of view; which isn't objective at all really. The onus of your arguments is to condemn Suarez and yet call yourself an LFC fan. Strange times indeed.

Suarez didnt dive against stoke. He was clipped and threw himself on the floor.
More embarrassing than cheating and people should be looking at wellbeck who "drew" the foul for his penalty last night. He could have easily got out of the way but chose to dive to gain an advantage. That was blatant cheating
But hes a manc and an englishman isnt he?

Luis, just do what you do best, hit the back of the net.  PLease leave the amature theatrics alone...

i dont know what's the fuss about suarez's dive vs stoke. he dived and didnt get a penalty. end of story.
ashely young dived against QPR, got a penalty and the defender got send off within the first 10 mins last season. and he did it again 2 wks later. nobody said a word!!
certainly not the FIFA vp!

why is there a so obvious bias toward us? rogers has to get us together and unite the team as we certainly are not going to get any decisions in matches nowadays.

that koscelny (sp?) the arsenal player has stuck his oar in today, he says luis is a cheat and in the same interview he laughably states that the player he`s admired the most during his time in england is the original drama queen himself - didier drogba!!
drogba is worse than luis!
isnt this koscelny fella the player that got stretched off by a team of paramedics with a friggin leg brace on and an oxygen mask on after joe cole tackled him (and got sent off) but then jogged back on the pitch a couple of minutes later?

in tonights echo luis has hit back at that FIFA delegate from northern ireland (he represents britain in FIFA) who had a go at him by saying he`d never even heard of the fella or heard his name mentioned once within the game in england so thats how important he is.
the uruguayain FA have written to FIFA complaing about the northern irishmans comments.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:02 pm wrote:that koscelny (sp?) the arsenal player has stuck his oar in today, he says luis is a cheat and in the same interview he laughably states that the player he`s admired the most during his time in england is the original drama queen himself - didier drogba!!
drogba is worse than luis!
isnt this koscelny fella the player that got stretched off by a team of paramedics with a friggin leg brace on and an oxygen mask on after joe cole tackled him (and got sent off) but then jogged back on the pitch a couple of minutes later?

in tonights echo luis has hit back at that FIFA delegate from northern ireland (he represents britain in FIFA) who had a go at him by saying he`d never even heard of the fella or heard his name mentioned once within the game in england so thats how important he is.
the uruguayain FA have written to FIFA complaing about the northern irishmans comments.

Koscelny is obviously trolling after his comments on Drogba............ 

Every Tom, Dick and Harry now having their say and the club is once again twiddling its fingers not doing anything.

This wouldn't be happening if we had competent owners and someone who knew how to run a proper PR department at the club.

A lot of foreign players will be looking at this incident which has now exploded into a cloud mushroom and be staying well clear of Anfield, who would blame them really?

And I wouldn't blame Luis if he wants to leave in January, this club has truly lost its soul in not being able to defend its own players and stand up to this current 'Kangaroo court' being played out in the media.

Couldn't picture the same situation happening over at Manure or Cheatski.