Liverpool FC Forum

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:05 pm wrote:

Boxscarf » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:12 pm wrote:

Thommo's perm » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:37 pm wrote:LFC fu'cked up by not asking JT how to get off with a racism charge
The man is a Fu*king genius!

Maybe because he was innocent and Anton Ferdinand is a sh*t stirring moron?

Still I like how white people who make racist tweets on Twitter are discharged from the Army or sentenced to Prison, but Rio Ferdinand can call Ashley Cole a 'choc ice' which is a racist term and nothing is done about it.

It's bit like how Black nationalism and black pride is acceptable, but God forbid I walk outside with a White Pride t-shirt. And people wonder why Neo-Nazism is one the fast growing underground Political movements throughout Europe.

Right wing fascist groups are gathering a bit of momentum in Europe because of the EU and the EZ's austerity measures on them, Greece for example. They offer their country back to them with autonomy, independence and identity once more rather than having the Europhiles dissolving their countries national identity.

Secondly, open border policy the EU has implemented also aids right wing fascist groups' political aims, to give locals back there jobs etc, whether this is propaganda or not is a different debate.

It's not to do with race (mainly) why these fascist groups appear to be gathering momentum, more because of economic pressures that have been implemented on them by the technocrats from Brussels.

I do agree with your black pride assertion, no matter what our ancestors did 400 years ago, today we strive for equality no matter colour or creed. Yet, true equality doesn't happen if one group of people are being discriminated against for having pride in their race, culture and nation. These whites that do this are being discriminated against and being labelled racist, by the left, academics, political correctness think tanks and the likes, they have ensured the best we to take on discrimination against 'minority' races is to use the very thing they supposedly abhor and implement it within society, to somehow balance out the status-quo amongst different groups of people. They use discrimination to fight discrimination - which is the wrong way of striving for total equality.

Still glad there are some sensible people around.

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:05 pm wrote:
Right wing fascist groups are gathering a bit of momentum in Europe because of the EU and the EZ's austerity measures on them, Greece for example. They offer their country back to them with autonomy, independence and identity once more rather than having the Europhiles dissolving their countries national identity.

Right wing groups gather momentum because of growing unemployment rates. The greeks have ***** it up all by themselves, by living large while cheating on their taxes every chance they got. Now they are just paying the price for what they have done. But as always its much easier to blame everyone except yourself when your luck is changing for the worse.

The whole "racism" issue is confused and devisive.
It has been used, in the case of Suarez, as a tool to vilify and condemn someone who said something he believed was trivial in the heat of the moment.
Or, as in the case of Terry, as a tool to confirm that people with money and access to top lawyers can get away with almost everything.
The media is a major player in this fiasco and those who accept whats happening must take the responsibility as much as those who encourage such behaviour

OK, Kenny Kan, what will our "white pride" group consist of? In general pride groups are a way of acknowledging the sacrifices and pain endured by previous generations so a group of people can feel equal in todays society. Can you see how its hard for a group of people decended from a race that repressed, murdered and in some cases completely wiped out any race, religion, gender, sexual preference, colour etc that didnt fit the "white christian male" demograph to start a "pride" group in celebration of those things and not appear to be insensitive? Its not about political correctness, its about common sense

burjennio » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:40 pm wrote:OK, Kenny Kan, what will our "white pride" group consist of? In general pride groups are a way of acknowledging the sacrifices and pain endured by previous generations so a group of people can feel equal in todays society. Can you see how its hard for a group of people decended from a race that repressed, murdered and in some cases completely wiped out any race, religion, gender, sexual preference, colour etc that didnt fit the "white christian male" demograph to start a "pride" group in celebration of those things and not appear to be insensitive? Its not about political correctness, its about common sense

I didn't mean "white pride" group, I meant, proud of who you are, white or black.

Contemporary racism uses discrimination to combat discrimination, this is wrong. For example, when the Met Police where found to be an institutionally racist outfit, it was combated by filling jobs on quota rather than merit - ergo, Black, female officers were given jobs to fill quotas, not because they were better equipped to do the job, than a white man for example who also applied for the same job. This lowers standards as well as using discrimination, this stuff is PC and it's idiotic in vying for equality.

Back to the point I think Boxcarf made, was that if you are a proud of your nation and who you are when being of white origin, you are casted as racist, how does this work? It's no different from a black person being proud of who they are, yet they are applauded for their show of pride within them self, where a white man is sneered at for his overt happiness of who he is - how is this equality?

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:16 pm wrote:Back to the point I think Boxcarf made, was that if you are a proud of your nation and who you are when being of white origin, you are casted as racist, how does this work?

Thats not true. I'm white and proud of who i am but i've never been accused of beeing racist for that. You just cant call it "white pride" as the term is associated with racist groups.

You only get in trouble when you say white people are better than others.

this should push the Suarez thread into the 200+ mark by tomorrow 

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:16 pm wrote:

burjennio » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:40 pm wrote:OK, Kenny Kan, what will our "white pride" group consist of? In general pride groups are a way of acknowledging the sacrifices and pain endured by previous generations so a group of people can feel equal in todays society. Can you see how its hard for a group of people decended from a race that repressed, murdered and in some cases completely wiped out any race, religion, gender, sexual preference, colour etc that didnt fit the "white christian male" demograph to start a "pride" group in celebration of those things and not appear to be insensitive? Its not about political correctness, its about common sense

I didn't mean "white pride" group, I meant, proud of who you are, white or black.

Contemporary racism uses discrimination to combat discrimination, this is wrong. For example, when the Met Police where found to be an institutionally racist outfit, it was combated by filling jobs on quota rather than merit - ergo, Black, female officers were given jobs to fill quotas, not because they were better equipped to do the job, than a white man for example who also applied for the same job. This lowers standards as well as using discrimination, this stuff is PC and it's idiotic in vying for equality.

Back to the point I think Boxcarf made, was that if you are a proud of your nation and who you are when being of white origin, you are casted as racist, how does this work? It's no different from a black person being proud of who they are, yet they are applauded for their show of pride within them self, where a white man is sneered at for his overt happiness of who he is - how is this equality?

You are talking about apples an oranges there, anyone can be proud of the country they are from, regardless of colour, religion, sex etc, but there is a world of difference in black and white pride due to the respective histories of both races and their interactions with one another over the last 4 centuries. No one is proud of their skin colour on a superficial level any more than someone can be proud of being blonde haired - its the historical and cultural significance that their colour represents - the history of African ancestry and the persecution and oppression associated with it. Is it really that hard to understand the difference? Its that modern passive-aggressive racist attitude again - "Well Im not a racist and I never owned a slave so black people should just forget about it and move on because its nothing to do with me." Newsflash - it isnt about you, it isnt about white people, its about never forgetting the sacrifices of those who went through hell to make sure that one day we are all classed as equals.

I agree that the quota thing is ridiculous btw, the PSNI (police force) has to assign jobs 50/50 based on religion in N Ireland which to me is completely counter-productive to promoting equality.

mart » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:40 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:16 pm wrote:Back to the point I think Boxcarf made, was that if you are a proud of your nation and who you are when being of white origin, you are casted as racist, how does this work?

Thats not true. I'm white and proud of who i am but i've never been accused of beeing racist for that. You just cant call it "white pride" as the term is associated with racist groups.

You only get in trouble when you say white people are better than others.

That's not true is it?

Straight off the top of my head I recall recently a column writer in the one of the national newspapers bemoaning the fact he couldn't support England because some fans dressed up as Knights templar.

If you're still not convinced read up Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, one of her write ups insinuated "if you are male, working-class and white then you are automatically racist".

This type of feeling doesn't just resonate with one or two people, hence the reason things like positive discrimination are rife within many societies today.

The fact the FA banned Suarez for eight games in a kangeroo court without compelling evidence shows how such discrimination manifests in society today.

burjennio » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:05 am wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:16 pm wrote:

burjennio » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:40 pm wrote:OK, Kenny Kan, what will our "white pride" group consist of? In general pride groups are a way of acknowledging the sacrifices and pain endured by previous generations so a group of people can feel equal in todays society. Can you see how its hard for a group of people decended from a race that repressed, murdered and in some cases completely wiped out any race, religion, gender, sexual preference, colour etc that didnt fit the "white christian male" demograph to start a "pride" group in celebration of those things and not appear to be insensitive? Its not about political correctness, its about common sense

I didn't mean "white pride" group, I meant, proud of who you are, white or black.

Contemporary racism uses discrimination to combat discrimination, this is wrong. For example, when the Met Police where found to be an institutionally racist outfit, it was combated by filling jobs on quota rather than merit - ergo, Black, female officers were given jobs to fill quotas, not because they were better equipped to do the job, than a white man for example who also applied for the same job. This lowers standards as well as using discrimination, this stuff is PC and it's idiotic in vying for equality.

Back to the point I think Boxcarf made, was that if you are a proud of your nation and who you are when being of white origin, you are casted as racist, how does this work? It's no different from a black person being proud of who they are, yet they are applauded for their show of pride within them self, where a white man is sneered at for his overt happiness of who he is - how is this equality?

You are talking about apples an oranges there, anyone can be proud of the country they are from, regardless of colour, religion, sex etc, but there is a world of difference in black and white pride due to the respective histories of both races and their interactions with one another over the last 4 centuries. No one is proud of their skin colour on a superficial level any more than someone can be proud of being blonde haired - its the historical and cultural significance that their colour represents - the history of African ancestry and the persecution and oppression associated with it. Is it really that hard to understand the difference? Its that modern passive-aggressive racist attitude again - "Well Im not a racist and I never owned a slave so black people should just forget about it and move on because its nothing to do with me." Newsflash - it isnt about you, it isnt about white people, its about never forgetting the sacrifices of those who went through hell to make sure that one day we are all classed as equals.

I agree that the quota thing is ridiculous btw, the PSNI (police force) has to assign jobs 50/50 based on religion in N Ireland which to me is completely counter-productive to promoting equality.

It's also worth noting that modern racism (white is superior to all other races) was constructed during colonial times. Backed by crazy Victorian science, the colonial mandate paved the way for popular culture to alienate other races and claim superiority on medical, scientific and religious grounds.

Why?  It's easier to justify stealing someone's country when you can pretend they’re not your equals...hence racism became cemented into Western culture

  the history of African ancestry and the persecution and oppression associated with it. Is it really that hard to understand the difference? Its that modern passive-aggressive racist attitude again - "Well Im not a racist and I never owned a slave so black people should just forget about it and move on because its nothing to do with me." Newsflash - it isnt about you, it isnt about white people, its about never forgetting the sacrifices of those who went through hell to make sure that one day we are all classed as equals.
           

You do realise African blacks and Arabs were using slavery on the continent of Africa way before the white man went there and implemented the transatlantic slave trade?

Secondly, I haven't insinuated once that "black pride" shouldn't take place, good for them! But I won't be buggered into thinking I should feel guilty of what my "ancestors" did back then and having this rubbed into my face as some guilt trip that pervades society today with all it's PC indoctrination. And it's the same that I wouldn't expect a German (Merkel excused) today to personally feel guilty of what their forefathers did in 1945.

What I have said though, is that if you are white, you can take pride in your race. It's the same as our recent fore fathers making sacrifice during WWII who also went through hell to prevent the Nazi machine of Europe conquering Europe. But hey, I don't go round angrily protesting "black pride" rights and neither do I burn poppies in a show of contempt on the 11th day of the 11th month of the 11th hour...

Maybe your pearls of wisdom and objectivity can be headed towards the people who do, do such things... After all "newsflash" the remembrance isn't about them! it's about our own who sacrificed their lives for the freedom you live today.

One group using slavery doesnt justify another, but the fact that Europeans claimed to be "civilized" while they were taken people away from their homelands in shackles, and the fact they many were continuing to participate in it during the age of enlightenment makes it much more modern, and much more abhorrent.

But I won't be buggered into thinking I should feel guilty of what my "ancestors" did and having this rubbed into my face as some guilt trip that pervades society today with all it's PC indoctrination.

Whos rubbing it in your face? Where has that come from?

The poppy burning thing is down by people who lack intelligence who believe they are making some kind of political message, completely missing the point of the whole concept of remembering those who paid the ultimate price in war. Its about respecting their memories, not celebrating victory over rival nations. Its only a very small minority that dont see this act as idiotic.

burjennio » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:10 am wrote:One group using slavery doesnt justify another, but the fact that Europeans claimed to be "civilized" while they were taken people away from their homelands in shackles, and the fact they many were continuing to participate in it during the age of enlightenment makes it much more modern, and much more abhorrent.

It wasn't justification of slavery, I was pointing out a fact that many seem to forget, ignore or don't even know of that making slavery isn't simply a 'white man thing'.

Whos rubbing it in your face? Where has that come from?

Like I said since PC pervades society and uses discrimination to combat discrimination I would say it's being rubbed into the faces of people who don't come from ethnic minorities. You even agreed with the 'quota' thing before re the police force, it's being indoctrinated everywhere and it's fairly obvious to most by now. And also you accuse those who feel no guilt of what their ancestors did by coining it "passive racial aggression". When it's clearly not. You expect people to feel a burden of guilt for something they had no hand in what so ever, yet if they don't, you term them "passive-racial-aggressive" to 'try' and trump and take some sort of righteous moral high ground - it doesn't wash with me because it's a totally illogical and flawed accusation that deserves you to be called up upon.

The poppy burning thing is down by people who lack intelligence who believe they are making some kind of political message, completely missing the point of the whole concept of remembering those who paid the ultimate price in war. Its about respecting their memories, not celebrating victory over rival nations. Its only a very small minority that dont see this act as idiotic.

Of course. They aren't defined as racist (only a white man can be that),for the contempt they show, there is some kind of apologetic reasoning and unintellectual debate behind this but certainly no racsim . But when a white person, protests against something similar, he's branded racist through the 'thought police' society we have become today that endeavors to appease ethnic minorities, for no other reason than to try and rid themselves of guilt undertaken in Britain's blood-stained past. A guilt, incidentally I don't have or share.

Like I said since PC pervades society and uses discrimination to combat discrimination I would say it's being rubbed into the faces of people who don't come from ethnic minorities. And also you accuse those who feel no guilt of what their ancestors did by coining it "passive racial aggression". When it's clearly not. You expect people to feel a burden of guilt for something they had no hand in what so ever, yet if they don't, you term them "passive-racial-aggressive" to 'try' and trump and take some sort of righteous moral high ground - it doesn't wash with me because it's a totally illogical and flawed accusation that deserves you to be called up upon.

Stop twisting my words. The point I made was that a person claiming that since they had no direct input into racial abuses hundreds of years ago they feel that black people have no right to "rub it in their face" is an incredibly arrogant stance and passive aggressively racist. As I previously stated it has nothing to do with guilting anyone that these groups exist but as a celebration of their own particular culture.

You're clearly an ultra-conservative in regards to your view that "non-ethnic majorities" are somehow being discriminated against (that sentence alone should utter a chuckle from anyone reading it) so the next time you spit out your low fat latte in righteous indignation at something you read in the Daily Mail take a second, three deep breaths, and ask yourself the question "If all this crazy bullsh*t was really happening on a daily basis wouldnt it be reported in many more reputable places than this f*cking rag?

burjennio » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am wrote:

Like I said since PC pervades society and uses discrimination to combat discrimination I would say it's being rubbed into the faces of people who don't come from ethnic minorities. And also you accuse those who feel no guilt of what their ancestors did by coining it "passive racial aggression". When it's clearly not. You expect people to feel a burden of guilt for something they had no hand in what so ever, yet if they don't, you term them "passive-racial-aggressive" to 'try' and trump and take some sort of righteous moral high ground - it doesn't wash with me because it's a totally illogical and flawed accusation that deserves you to be called up upon.

Stop twisting my words. The point I made was that a person claiming that since they had no direct input into racial abuses hundreds of years ago they feel that black people have no right to "rub it in their face" is an incredibly arrogant stance and passive aggressively racist. As I previously stated it has nothing to do with guilting anyone that these groups exist but as a celebration of their own particular culture.

I didn't twist your words, no point in trying to wriggle out of these flawed and illogical accusations you've made:

Its that modern passive-aggressive racist attitude again - "Well Im not a racist and I never owned a slave so black people should just forget about it and move on because its nothing to do with me."

You're clearly an ultra-conservative in regards to your view that "non-ethnic majorities" are somehow being discriminated against (that sentence alone should utter a chuckle from anyone reading it) so the next time you spit out your low fat latte in righteous indignation at something you read in the Daily Mail take a second, three deep breaths, and ask yourself the question "If all this crazy bullsh*t was really happening on a daily basis wouldnt it be reported in many more reputable places than this f*cking rag?

Many presumptions have been made there, please don't pigeon hole me into a political sect - you have no idea of the broader opinions and values I hold. You've even admitted yourself the police force employ on quota rather than merit FFS, then have the audacity to "chuckle" at the fact non-ethnic-minorites aren't being discriminated against, what the feck do you call it Mr liberal Catholic? (a presumptuous oxymoron I've made there). I've stooped to your level now, to counter the claim that I somehow read the Daily Mail, (while you present the innuendo of 'little Englander' towards me), and making all my claims off of the back of this "f*cking rag". 

Instead of trying to insult my intelligence re my views, and where I get my informed opinion from, try debating the point instead. Of course, when a debates not going the way of someone from the 'thought police', they/you jump up and down and accuse people of reading the daily mail (making the innuendo I'm racist) and being ultra-conservative to stifle debate becuase your points, and claims have been refuted. Typical. 

Here it is again, you state:

I agree that the quota thing is ridiculous btw, the PSNI (police force) has to assign jobs 50/50 based on religion in N Ireland which to me is completely counter-productive to promoting equality.
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Of course, you won't give a reason as to why this discrimination takes place, rather you define at as just being "ridiculous". Of course you would, because you are too busy treading on eggshells up there in your ivory tower.