Liverpool FC Forum

i am critical of him yes but i wouldnt go as far as to label him *****.
he has a few good touches and the odd bit of vision for me to believe that he has a bit of talent and i can only assume thats what kenny was thinking when he signed him.
he's been played constantly because kenny wants to justify signing him and isnt prepared to bench him and admit he overspent on a player that isnt good enough or ready for first team football at the minute.
that has to be it as its not because he's played out of his skin in the previous match thus deserving to start the next one.

of him, carroll, adam and downing he's still the one i have most faith in to come good.

time will tell i suppose.
carroll has more potential to offer us something now whereas hendo might come good in a year or two.
i have been surprised at how bad adam and downing have been all season and they should be contributing more to our play as both are older and have more experience.the club should seriously consider cutting their losses on both as they are not delivering or indeed fitting into the team to the level they should.
adam had one of the best left foots in the league last year and it seems when he joined us it has been amputated,like wise downing had a decent supply and assist record but you would never believe that looking at him now.
i still believe that no one could have predicted how big a failure the new signings have been.
in a nutshell we have taken big fish from smaller ponds and put them in a lake and they have been dodging the pike ever since.

red till i die!! wrote:time will tell i suppose.
carroll has more potential to offer us something now whereas hendo might come good in a year or two.
i have been surprised at how bad adam and downing have been all season and they should be contributing more to our play as both are older and have more experience.the club should seriously consider cutting their losses on both as they are not delivering or indeed fitting into the team to the level they should.
adam had one of the best left foots in the league last year and it seems when he joined us it has been amputated,like wise downing had a decent supply and assist record but you would never believe that looking at him now.
i still believe that no one could have predicted how big a failure the new signings have been.
in a nutshell we have taken big fish from smaller ponds and put them in a lake and they have been dodging the pike ever since.

Thats the reason why it's not entirely Kenny's fault. Right there.

Carroll - was knocking them in for fun at Toons - Kenny signed him (albiet a panic buy)
Henderson - exciting prospect that looked as though he could really shine - so Kenny bought him.
Adam - One of the best left foots in the league last season - so Kenny bought him
Downing - likewise Downing - so Kenny bought him.

So Kenny signs four 'at the time of signing' top prospects. If they'd of all worked out instantly we'd of been praising him. But they've failed to deliver. Is that Kenny's fault? he can only go by what he see's. If he lands Messi in the transfer window and he only scores 8 goals all season do we blame Kenny?

RedSi35 wrote:Why is it taking so long for a previously proven player with premeirship experience to prove himself in a premeirship team?

mate he`s 21, he was obviously bought with the future in mind, you dont get many 21 year old players who stamp their authority on games.
considering his age i think henderson does well, he`s got a terrific engine on him and he`s neat and tidy in possession, once or twice this season too he has produced a moment of genuine quality like that through ball away at chelsea in the cup that set bellamy away to cross for maxi and that first time cross he hit away at stoke when suarez headed the winner. plus when he speaks he`s got a really good head on his shoulders, he talks like a 31 year old not a 21 year old, unlike some young players who earn a lot of money in their early 20`s he`s never in the papers and he`s obviously a model proffessional who tries his hardest.
considering his age he`s doing well, it`s just that people are expecting miracles from him because of his price tag but he had nothing to do with the transfer fee, the 2 clubs arranged that not henderson.

Roger Red Hat wrote:

red till i die!! wrote:time will tell i suppose.
carroll has more potential to offer us something now whereas hendo might come good in a year or two.
i have been surprised at how bad adam and downing have been all season and they should be contributing more to our play as both are older and have more experience.the club should seriously consider cutting their losses on both as they are not delivering or indeed fitting into the team to the level they should.
adam had one of the best left foots in the league last year and it seems when he joined us it has been amputated,like wise downing had a decent supply and assist record but you would never believe that looking at him now.
i still believe that no one could have predicted how big a failure the new signings have been.
in a nutshell we have taken big fish from smaller ponds and put them in a lake and they have been dodging the pike ever since.

Thats the reason why it's not entirely Kenny's fault. Right there.

Carroll - was knocking them in for fun at Toons - Kenny signed him (albiet a panic buy)
Henderson - exciting prospect that looked as though he could really shine - so Kenny bought him.
Adam - One of the best left foots in the league last season - so Kenny bought him
Downing - likewise Downing - so Kenny bought him.

So Kenny signs four 'at the time of signing' top prospects. If they'd of all worked out instantly we'd of been praising him. But they've failed to deliver. Is that Kenny's fault? he can only go by what he see's. If he lands Messi in the transfer window and he only scores 8 goals all season do we blame Kenny?

those 4 players were all excellent last season and if you go on stats then you could argue that they were justified signings (even at ridiculously inflated prices). carroll was a monster for toon in the first half of the season and the other three were in the top 10 in terms of chances created through the entire season.

unfortuntely doing that at their respective clubs and doing it at liverpool are two entirely different things though. the pressure to perform here is far higher and so far none of them have really delivered.

agreed and all that is NOT Kenny's fault. He did the right thing by signing those 4 players. the fact they turned to poo could not be forseen

stmichael wrote:

Roger Red Hat wrote:

red till i die!! wrote:time will tell i suppose.
carroll has more potential to offer us something now whereas hendo might come good in a year or two.
i have been surprised at how bad adam and downing have been all season and they should be contributing more to our play as both are older and have more experience.the club should seriously consider cutting their losses on both as they are not delivering or indeed fitting into the team to the level they should.
adam had one of the best left foots in the league last year and it seems when he joined us it has been amputated,like wise downing had a decent supply and assist record but you would never believe that looking at him now.
i still believe that no one could have predicted how big a failure the new signings have been.
in a nutshell we have taken big fish from smaller ponds and put them in a lake and they have been dodging the pike ever since.

Thats the reason why it's not entirely Kenny's fault. Right there.

Carroll - was knocking them in for fun at Toons - Kenny signed him (albiet a panic buy)
Henderson - exciting prospect that looked as though he could really shine - so Kenny bought him.
Adam - One of the best left foots in the league last season - so Kenny bought him
Downing - likewise Downing - so Kenny bought him.

So Kenny signs four 'at the time of signing' top prospects. If they'd of all worked out instantly we'd of been praising him. But they've failed to deliver. Is that Kenny's fault? he can only go by what he see's. If he lands Messi in the transfer window and he only scores 8 goals all season do we blame Kenny?

those 4 players were all excellent last season and if you go on stats then you could argue that they were justified signings (even at ridiculously inflated prices). carroll was a monster for toon in the first half of the season and the other three were in the top 10 in terms of chances created through the entire season.

unfortuntely doing that at their respective clubs and doing it at liverpool are two entirely different things though. the pressure to perform here is far higher and so far none of them have really delivered.

exactly, thats why all that stats malarky is all my @rse, footy is a sport not a science

Thats the reason why it's not entirely Kenny's fault. Right there.

Carroll - was knocking them in for fun at Toons - Kenny signed him (albiet a panic buy)
Henderson - exciting prospect that looked as though he could really shine - so Kenny bought him.
Adam - One of the best left foots in the league last season - so Kenny bought him
Downing - likewise Downing - so Kenny bought him.

So Kenny signs four 'at the time of signing' top prospects. If they'd of all worked out instantly we'd of been praising him. But they've failed to deliver. Is that Kenny's fault? he can only go by what he see's. If he lands Messi in the transfer window and he only scores 8 goals all season do we blame Kenny?[/quote]

those 4 players were all excellent last season and if you go on stats then you could argue that they were justified signings (even at ridiculously inflated prices). carroll was a monster for toon in the first half of the season and the other three were in the top 10 in terms of chances created through the entire season.

unfortuntely doing that at their respective clubs and doing it at liverpool are two entirely different things though. the pressure to perform here is far higher and so far none of them have really delivered.[/quote]

exactly, thats why all that stats malarky is all my @rse, footy is a sport not a science[/quote]

what happens now is the million dollar question.
do we persist with them or rectify some of the mistakes in the summer because their is no guarantees that they will be better next season and the pressure will be even bigger then.

it's about balance and unfortunately we've got it wrong.

if you go back to 08/09 our first team was absolutely superb. we arguably had five world class players in that side (reina, mascherano, alonso. gerrard, torres). however the squad was too thin if we got injuries. now we've gone completely the other way whereby our squad is stronger in terms of personnel but the quality has gone down significantly overall.

henderson is the prime example of this. adam aswell to an extent. i don't think either were brought with a view to being playing week in week out. however that's been the case due to meireles wanting to leave, and gerrard and lucas getting injured.

red till i die!! wrote:Thats the reason why it's not entirely Kenny's fault. Right there.

Carroll - was knocking them in for fun at Toons - Kenny signed him (albiet a panic buy)
Henderson - exciting prospect that looked as though he could really shine - so Kenny bought him.
Adam - One of the best left foots in the league last season - so Kenny bought him
Downing - likewise Downing - so Kenny bought him.

So Kenny signs four 'at the time of signing' top prospects. If they'd of all worked out instantly we'd of been praising him. But they've failed to deliver. Is that Kenny's fault? he can only go by what he see's. If he lands Messi in the transfer window and he only scores 8 goals all season do we blame Kenny?

those 4 players were all excellent last season and if you go on stats then you could argue that they were justified signings (even at ridiculously inflated prices). carroll was a monster for toon in the first half of the season and the other three were in the top 10 in terms of chances created through the entire season.

unfortuntely doing that at their respective clubs and doing it at liverpool are two entirely different things though. the pressure to perform here is far higher and so far none of them have really delivered.[/quote]

exactly, thats why all that stats malarky is all my @rse, footy is a sport not a science[/quote]

what happens now is the million dollar question.
do we persist with them or rectify some of the mistakes in the summer because their is no guarantees that they will be better next season and the pressure will be even bigger then.[/quote]

henderson will improve as the years go by, dont forget he`s only 6 months older than the likes of nathan eccleston and dani pacheco and he`s 2 years younger than jay spearing, for his age henderson is a very good player.
carroll is the same, those target men types of centre forwards get better as they get older, infact carroll is way ahead of the curve, at carroll`s age teddy sheringham was at millwall and being loaned out to aldershot and peter crouch was an unknown at QPR, both of those players went on to be england internationals and they played in CL finals so to write carroll off when he`s only just turned 23 is nuts.
there`s nothing wrong with carroll and henderson, over the past 6 weeks apart from skrtel carroll has probably been our best player, it`s just that we signed young players with potential when on hindsight we needed to sign players who were the finished article. building for the future is a good idea when you have a good side and you want to make sure you continue your success, but we needed to build a good side first before we looked too far into the future.

what happens now is the million dollar question.
do we persist with them or rectify some of the mistakes in the summer because their is no guarantees that they will be better next season and the pressure will be even bigger then.[/quote]

henderson will improve as the years go by, dont forget he`s only 6 months older than the likes of nathan eccleston and dani pacheco and he`s 2 years younger than jay spearing, for his age henderson is a very good player.
carroll is the same, those target men types of centre forwards get better as they get older, infact carroll is way ahead of the curve, at carroll`s age teddy sheringham was at millwall and being loaned out to aldershot and peter crouch was an unknown at QPR, both of those players went on to be england internationals and they played in CL finals so to write carroll off when he`s only just turned 23 is nuts.
there`s nothing wrong with carroll and henderson, over the past 6 weeks apart from skrtel carroll has probably been our best player, it`s just that we signed young players with potential when on hindsight we needed to sign players who were the finished article. building for the future is a good idea when you have a good side and you want to make sure you continue your success, but we needed to build a good side first before we looked too far into the future.[/quote]

good post and i agree on carroll and to some extent on henderson and maybe if he was only playing a bit part this season it would be easier to have more patience with him.
we did need to sign complete players to carry what we already had as it works in cycles.proven players carry the young ones untill they are ready to replace them and by that time you hope they turned out just as good if not better than their predecessors.
this worked with lucas and if we have the philosophy of waiting till a player reaches 22 or 23 to see if they can cut it then we will fail again.we need to get it right on the pitch now and start bringing in the likes of shelvey,sterling suso and coady or else another generation will pass us by and it will be too late to do anything about it.
we need to replace bellamy,kuyt,maxi,aqua,cole and aurelio and use the money to fund real quality replacements to bridge the gap till then.
players like hazard,hoilett and someone like berbatov would completely transform that team and the results

red til i die i`d try to keep aquilani, i know he wants to stay in italy and i`ve heard the rumours about him and comoli having a huge argument in a hotel in oslo but quite frankly we need him now, plus apparently we are only going to get £5m for him anyway.
he was outstanding in pre season and a central midfield partnership of him and lucas next year wouldnt be the worst midfield in the world.
he`s going to be p1$$ed off when we tell him he`s staying in england but if he`s a starter instead of a bit part player he will soon knuckle down and get on with it.
at least he`s the type of player that would be on suarez`s wavelength.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:red til i die i`d try to keep aquilani, i know he wants to stay in italy and i`ve heard the rumours about him and comoli having a huge argument in a hotel in oslo but quite frankly we need him now, plus apparently we are only going to get £5m for him anyway.
he was outstanding in pre season and a central midfield partnership of him and lucas next year wouldnt be the worst midfield in the world.
he`s going to be p1$$ed off when we tell him he`s staying in england but if he`s a starter instead of a bit part player he will soon knuckle down and get on with it.
at least he`s the type of player that would be on suarez`s wavelength.

there isnt a bit of that i dont agree with and if it was up to me he never would have been sent out on loan this year either.
i posted at the time when he was leaving and merieles was also departing that we cant afford to do without either because of the obvious,creating and scoring which both would have given us.
unfortunately im not the one you have to convince.i stuck his name in there because he has a resale value (albeit f*ck all now).he was our best player in preseason and kenny was never going to keep him here and only played him to put him in the shop window and when he couldnt sell he packed him on loan.he should have never been allowed to leave on loan again and id say the fact the club were going to anyway made up his mind that he wasnt wanted.
for this reason id say their is a very slim chance he will line up for us next year but i would like kenny to keep him even if it meant he could walk on a free the year after.
he is good enough to play for ac milan but isnt good enough for liverpool.there is something not right there.

Stuff has happened with Aquilani that we will probably never hear about. Best we could hope for is to tell Aquilani to sign a new contract or spend a year in the reserves.If he signs agree that he can go back out on loan or sell him for a decent price. He appears to be so desperate not to spend any time in Liverpool that that could just work!