Liverpool FC Forum

by **rocky29** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:32 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Hold on a minute - when have I ever said I hate him ? Plenty of people have mentioned his actions of the field as well as on , his criticising of the fans . I would like to ask you what you mean by respect towards the manager ? There is plenty of people on here who are criticising the manager - so by criticising does that mean lack of respect ? So if we find a fault in something he does or disagree with a choice of his that means we are not showing him respect now ?

So basically negative opinion now means no respect

Your right I didn't mean to say hate.

By lack of respect I mean not giving the same allowance as was given to Benitez under the same setting. Additionally Benitez's league performance in his first year was one of his worst, Hodgson is having an equally bad start.

Yet there was no backlash to Benitez, even at the start when the prospect of winning the CL was a pipe dream.

your wasting your time ihmo. When you have the most regjular posters who are all rafa lovers you will never get any respect for roy. They will just twist it into yet another talk about rafa thread.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:35 pm

Rocky go and finish your homework - The adults are talking now

by **mart** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:37 pm

Great. Another rafa thread is just what the forum needs.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:42 pm

Reg wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Whatever respect Roy had, he's destroyed it all on his own. Is he being treated fairly? Yes.

I assume your opinion of Rafa was the same after 12 games in his first season. After all he had lost 4 times and was struggling in the league and Europe.

Whats this got to do with Rafa?

Folks - get over Rafa. Draw a line under him and move on.

Reg, this isn't a comparison of the managers per se. It is solely a comparison of the treatment each has had, and how different it has been despite similar circumstances.

Without Rafa there is no comparison, simples.

by **Greavesie** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:46 pm

rocky29 wrote:roy will never get the respect no matter what he does im just glad he camei in and steadied the ship because i truly believe another year under rafa we would be at the foot of table with west ham facing relegation.

not to start a war but you've went and brought him up again with absolutely no basis to your argument whatsoever. If this is the ship when its steady I don't want to know what it's like when it's worse

just read this page as well - might as well lock this now methinks

by **rocky29** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:50 pm

mart wrote:Great. Another rafa thread is just what the forum needs.

ye great.How long do you reckon before someone mentions instanbul again. :sleep

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:58 pm

Rocky it's time for your milk and bedtime story - it's far too late for you to be up on a school night .

by **glenbuck patriot** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:16 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
glenbuck patriot wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:I personally was really reluctant to appoint Hodgson but something got me thinking when reading zarababe's post in another thread, she said -

RESPECT IS EARNT .. and all Liverpool Managers either have it and retain it or lose it and move on !

It got me thinking and wondering whether Hodgson is being offered the same level of respect and patience as Benitez was.

I did some digging. When Liverpool appointed Benitez in 2004 he was left with a team flooded with poor buys and growing discontent by Liverpool supporters who were angry with the mediocrity of the standard of football (see this Hansen interview). Bear in mind also this was when Houllier had just sealed CL football by finishing 4th in the league.

Benitez first season (2004/05) with his new side, he spent £18m in the first transfer window (Alonso 10m, Garcia 6m, Josemi 2m, Nunez Free) and 6m in the second (Morientes 5.5m, Carson 0.75m, Pelligrino Free) totalling 24m.

In his first 12 league games his record was 6 Wins 4 Losses 2 Draws (20 points). 6th in the league. That season we miraculously finished 5th! Even after losing 14 times in total! Our final stats were 17 Wins 14 Losses 2 Draws (+11GD)

So I guess it brings me back to the original question, is Hodgson being offered the same level of respect and patience.

Clearly not. Hypocritically in fact.

The similarities between Hodgson's appointment and Benitez's is stark. Both inherited poor squads, both struggled in their first 12 games. Yet the respect Hodgson is given is appalling from some on here and at Anfield.

Benitez came to Liverpool with a La Liga and a UEFA cup under his belt, spent close to 25 million in his first season, lost 14 times and failed to finish in a CL place. Yet he was given complete support by Liverpool supporters on the priviso it was work in progress, and rightly so.

Isn't it time the hypocrisy stopped and we offer Hodgson the same support that Benitez was offered?

I think you'll find that Rafa arrived having won 2 x La Liga, the Uefa Cup and was the incumbent UEFA Manager of the year.

If your taking the whole season into account it was 17,7 & 14, not great BUT & it's a huge one!

The one startling ommission from your fact file for that season is that although we finished fifth we did win the European Cup for the fifth time.

I think you'll find THAT is the reason he was given complete support by the Liverpool Faithful and where your argument falls flat on it's face.

Of course the argument falls flat on its face. Idiot.

Not mentioning the CL win was intentional, I was comparing Hodgson to Benitez and the respect gained whilst in the job at league level. Benitez didn't win the CL in the first 12 games did he?

In fact after 12 games we were in serious trouble at the group stage, or do you care to forget the qualification to the knock out stage via the win against Olympiakos and the subsequent goal difference advantage for second.

Even without the above, Benitez's credentials were better than Hodgsons yet he almost has matched Hodgsons start in terms of mediocrity.

In my opinion, taking everything into consideration, there is no defence for the treatment of Hodgson when the previous manager started exactly the same. It's hypocrisy at its best.

In essence if the only focus is the CL win, then it is solely that win that prevented Benitez being sacked based on league results. Without the qualification in the previous season under Houllier, Benitez would never of got the chance to win it or qualify for it until the 2006/07 season.

You're Argument as you freely admit falls flat on its face and i'm the Idiot? Words fail me.

You intentionally left out the CL League win, to say what exactly? to make WHAT point?

Liverpool under Rafa in the first year was no different to now, but you all like Rafa so why not like Roy? What is this Kindergarden?

The Answer is simple, Roy Hodgson is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, can't put it in any plainer ENGLISH for you.

I Wish the Lottery was this simple, but all you have to do is have eye's to know that Roy's days are numbered, it's not down to Fan's on this Forum saying he's clueless, it's not down to people writing in the Echo every night saying he's not the right man for the job.

No, what will get Roy Hodgson the Sack is Roy Hodgson, plain, simple, it's like looking beyond the end of your nose, or have you intentionally forgot to do that?

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:36 pm

rocky29 wrote:
mart wrote:Great. Another rafa thread is just what the forum needs.

ye great.How long do you reckon before someone mentions instanbul again.

Funny you should say that i was just lookin at some pics of that place, might go there for a weekend of shopping soon :nod

by **rocky29** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
rocky29 wrote:
mart wrote:Great. Another rafa thread is just what the forum needs.

ye great.How long do you reckon before someone mentions instanbul again.

Funny you should say that i was just lookin at some pics of that place, might go there for a weekend of shopping soon

do us all a favour and take benny with you and swap him for a cheap rug.

by **Thommo's perm** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:21 pm

Those with short memories will not remember the end of the Houllier days. Acrimony, frustration, disillusionment, anger. And yes, we really did finish 4th and qualified for the CL. Yet he had to go because he couldnt win the league.
In comes the enigmatic signor Benitez and inherits GH's squad, good and bad, adds a couple of gringos and sets out on a european mission. The holy grail, the lost ark, the golden fleece. A fairy tale which could never come true. Could it?
SCS makes a valid and decent point except its irrelevant because the circumstances are different. Moores was in charge and we were blissfully happy and content that although we hadnt won the league for years we would be champions soon. Especially with Benitez the conquistador at the helm. Yes GYBS he did have his doubters and critics, but most were like the Saint and made up to be rid of "the frenchman".
So we let his inadequacies in the league slide. We looked the other way because we had the makings of a miracle on our hands with each round of the CL. "De de der de der derr de derr" we sang louder and louder at each game and we got carried away with the emotion and excitement of what might be happening. Our league form was secondary. So much so that we didnt notice that it wasnt even as good as it was with le frog. But hey. Fu'ck it coz were going to Istanbul to win big ears for the fifth time and we get to keep it. The legend of Benitez was born. The reality of his inability to win the supposed "greatest prize in english football" our "bread and butter" was pushed aside and while we gorged on milans humiliation and our greatness.
The season after we would finally win the prem to add to our 18 titles and of course our fifth (count them ) european cup. We won the fa cup (just) and Benitez was up there with Shanks and Bob. Never mind, we would win the prem the next year. No we didnt. Or the year after. Or the year after....
We changed. We became less interested in the prem and more interested in the yanks. Who were, dont forget, the real reason Rafa never won the title. He left under a cloud for his new job as coach of the european and Italian champs. Smashing. But the hole left was enormous. Never in my life have I seen our club in such turmoil for all the reasons we know all about.
In steps gentle Roy the journeyman. Right into the hornets nest, the devils lair. The cauldron of hate, bile and nastiness that engulfed the once Camelot-like LFC. Talk about Paradise Lost.
It is pretty pointless comparing Benitez to Hodgson on just about any level. Different men, different times, different circumstances. He was already on a loser before he started due to the way the last manager (the legend) left. Hodgson needed to be a miracle worker to make any headway with the fans. His statements didnt help, nor did those who screamed hysterically (sos take note) at his naive utterances. Then add the apathy of the players and the mischeviousness of the media and you see what a mountain Hodgson had to climb.
But credit to the man that he has mostly learned from his mistakes and took us to within touching distance of fifth within 12 games. Of course we could go on (please dont) about how it was his fault we were down at the bottom in the first place. But we seem to be creeping up the table and hopefully the panic is over.
GYBS you are seriously having a laugh if you are saying that every manager since Shankly has not had respect. Totally the opposite. EVERY manager has had total respect (maybe with some reservations and misgivings) as soon as they took the role of manager of LFC. Every one except the current one
One thing remains true out of all of this. For better or worse, through design or accident, and whether we like it or not Roy is the manager of LFC, OUR club, and by rights should be given respect until he doesnt deserve it.
Not the other way round...

by **supersub** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:27 pm

I have respect for every manager of Liverpool past and present including the much critised Graeme Souness but that should not mean you cannot be critical of team selections,tactics , transfer policy etc or even comments made to the media.....what would be the point of a pint before and after the game if we were accused of no respect because we discuss the manager with hearty debate.....

I'm sure if the internet existed 50 years ago all our managers from Shanks onwards would have received their fair share of forum complaints but all still earned that respect.......

Gerard Houllier is still well respected by the fans that felt he had reached the summit of his achievements at Liverpool. I would be surprised if anyone on this forum shows any bitterness/hatred towards GH but would disagree with a passion with some comments he has made since he left.
Rafa Benitez is the only previous manager that earned respect (not straight away, I must add) but is shown such disgusting disrespect from a a small minority since his departure and was the receipient of terrible internet abuse in the final season of his LFC career....some are still pretty vocal on this forum.
Roy Hodgson will earn his respect by the manner in which he conducts himself during his Liverpool managerial career. He is afforded respect as a football manager but whether he can adapt to the high expectations that come with the job at our club only time will tell. These expectations are not just within LFC but the media also, who still refer to us as one of the 4 (when it suits) .

I can understand why some people felt RB had served his time and why others feel RH is not the man to take us forward, but I feel the issue of respect needs to be addressed by a few on newkit.....

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:29 pm

Thommo I think you need to read what I said more clearly when I said No one is given immediate respect they all earnt it through their actions both on and off the field .

by **Big Niall** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:57 pm

supersub wrote:Gerard Houllier is still well respected by the fans that felt he had reached the summit of his achievements at Liverpool. I would be surprised if anyone on this forum shows any bitterness/hatred towards GH but would disagree with a passion with some comments he has made since he left.

I absolutely despise the fukker.

Treating Roy Evans the way he did shows the scumbag piece of shitt that he is.

Also - why do people gloss over Souness selling a story to the sun about his mistress in 1992? great player, bad manager but that is just unforgiveable.

by **Thommo's perm** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:33 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Thommo I think you need to read what I said more clearly when I said No one is given immediate respect they all earnt it through their actions both on and off the field .

"Support is different to respect mate - name someone at Liverpool who was given instant respect ? "

I did read it. And Im still confused. Are you saying that Paisley, Fagan and Kenny didnt have respect from the supporters the instant they were announced manager??
Are you suggesting we had no respect for them until they had won 15, 20, 30 games or a trophy?

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Respect - Is hodgson being treated fairly?

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