Liverpool FC Forum

Reg wrote:This is where we differ in opinion Thommo, I dont think ANY manager could have operated under the pressure of the T&T regieme of the last 2-3 seasons.

I'm not blind, rafa made glaring mistakes, I accept that but the club lost the plot - and Rafa as a consequence, and where we are TODAY is the logical extension of the 'journey' under T&T's ownership.

If you plot a chart whereby the greatest influence is the decline in ownership leadership and strategic objectivity then inevitably we end up where we are today - in the courts trying to avoid bankruptcy, regardless of who the manager is, the captain or goalkeeper on the field. The club imploded, the pressure was too great, the owners over extended themselves and everyone from top to botom has paid the price.

Hence my comment, mourn the loss of what could have been.

Thommo's perm wrote:

Reg wrote:This is where we differ in opinion Thommo, I dont think ANY manager could have operated under the pressure of the T&T regieme of the last 2-3 seasons.

I'm not blind, rafa made glaring mistakes, I accept that but the club lost the plot - and Rafa as a consequence, and where we are TODAY is the logical extension of the 'journey' under T&T's ownership.

If you plot a chart whereby the greatest influence is the decline in ownership leadership and strategic objectivity then inevitably we end up where we are today - in the courts trying to avoid bankruptcy, regardless of who the manager is, the captain or goalkeeper on the field. The club imploded, the pressure was too great, the owners over extended themselves and everyone from top to botom has paid the price.

Hence my comment, mourn the loss of what could have been.

I accept your argument. But I still say that he was the architecht of his own downfall. If he would have concentrated on putting a stable, creative attacking team with a solid defence we could have swept everything before us. That is the tragedy in my eyes. He did not fulfill his potential.
Sad but true

maguskwt wrote:Easy for you to say "put a stable creative attacking team with a solid defense" as I'm sure Roy with all his immense experience is finding out right now...

Reg wrote:The key issues concerning Rafa are that he took on T&T and ultimately lost. Kenny stated that in his final weeks as LFC manager he thought his head would explode and I sense at the end Rafa was in a similar position. Untenable but in his case, unwilling to give up.

The second is issue the dire frustration, hurt and anger the fanbase feels towards the owners: they took a financially sound club, CL winners in 2005 with a 'reasonable' squad and a bright up and coming manager and in just 3 years virtually bankrupted us, pitched fan against fan and created such an atmosphere within the club concerning the position of the manager, his authority and budget, as to drive him out. He became a victim of their sordid game.

We have no sense of closure with Rafa. He was the brightest management talent we had since Kenny, he should have been a long term, successful manager. He was driven out of the club as part of the general decline and fall into chaos which hopefully was finally put to rest this morning.

The club needs to bring closure on the Rafa era. I agree he cant come back however I would like to see him invited back in 12 months time once we have new owners and a new long term manager in place to walk out in front of the Kop and both sides take some deep breaths and mourn the loss of what could have been, was undoubtedly possible had circumstances been allowed to run their course.

Only then can the fans let Rafa go and the spectre of Rafa be allowed to go with him to his new club.

If we cant have closure, the ghost of Rafa will forever hang above the Kop like an old Argentine general wtaching the efforts of a civilian government.

Reg wrote:Kenny stated that in his final weeks as LFC manager he thought his head would explode and I sense at the end Rafa was in a similar position. Untenable but in his case, unwilling to give up.

bigmick wrote:All this talk of "closure" unsurprisingly I suppose leaves me completely mystified. Rafa was in charge for six seasons, and we didn't win a trophy for the last four of them. We finished 7th in the league six years into a five year plan, and he walked away with 6 million quid in his back pocket. He's a football manager who's been moved on, it's not like losing a family member in a sudden accident or anything.

It's not closure we need, it's perspective.

Zidane wrote:Wenger hasn't won anything in even longer I think and he's only ever praised. 

Reg wrote:The high value paid and the fact he got a job with the Italian champions and CL winners within a week again only demonstrates the sordidness of the whole matter.

That would suggest to me that "Saint" Rafa was deep in negotiations while he was still managing the club he loved. i.e. Us.

Thommo's perm wrote:

Reg wrote:The high value paid and the fact he got a job with the Italian champions and CL winners within a week again only demonstrates the sordidness of the whole matter.

That would suggest to me that "Saint" Rafa was deep in negotiations while he was still managing the club he loved. i.e. Us.

andy_g wrote:there'll always be those who thought that rafa's mistakes were due to working under difficult conditions and there'll always be those who thought that most were of his own doing. while i'm sure that boardroom rubbish caused him to take his eye off the ball on more than one occasion and maybe he didn't get all the money he would necessarily have liked to realise his plan. fair dos.

but then its also obvious that the boardroom rubbish didn't cause him to court gareth barry over alonso, thus driving out the player that really made a difference to our play. neither did they force him to buy players and not play them, nor play others out of position on a regular basis.

a final analysis would be very difficult and i don't think seeing the last 3 years of rafa's reign being gone over with a fine toothed comb is really going to benefit any of the involved parties. its harder for some than for others but we do need to move on.

this is a very good post