Liverpool FC Forum

by **fivecups** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:37 am

bigmick wrote:A couple of posters have asked why he came off the post for the first goal, and I'm fecked if I can think of a single reason.

Reina moved towards Konchesky's post. Konchesky then decided to move to cover the middle. Reina move back to the centre so in effect Konchesky was almost behind him. It was a mistake but I watched it a few times because I was curious about why he left his post.

Akumaface makes a good point about Cole not providing as much support as some other LM's. It was the same at times for Insua last season. It's too early to judge Konchesky yet, he had an absolute shocker against United but lets give him a few matches playing with his team-mates before he's put in the corner with Dossena.

Should have kept Insua though. Stupid to give him to Galatassary.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:07 am

akumaface wrote:He is what he is, not highly skilled but hard working LB that will gives all he's got. He seems confused at his position as you can see he somehow went inside the goal area instead of attacking outside and try to prevent the crosses from the right winger. I think having Konchesky, Srketl and Carra is ont a good idea as all three are only good at hoofing the ball. We need more balance and hope Agger can provide more balance. But he is not the real problem. I would say Glen johnson defending is worse. With Joe Cole playing in front of Paul, he need to do a lot of defending as Joe cole did not track back as much to help out.

Have seen people mention Johnsons defending but the one thing to note is not one of the goals came from our right side on Sunday and Giggs was actually kept quiet compared to the other attacking players - I know Johnson has had some probs defending but on Sunday he did his job pretty well

by **TarnRed** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:11 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
akumaface wrote:He is what he is, not highly skilled but hard working LB that will gives all he's got. He seems confused at his position as you can see he somehow went inside the goal area instead of attacking outside and try to prevent the crosses from the right winger. I think having Konchesky, Srketl and Carra is ont a good idea as all three are only good at hoofing the ball. We need more balance and hope Agger can provide more balance. But he is not the real problem. I would say Glen johnson defending is worse. With Joe Cole playing in front of Paul, he need to do a lot of defending as Joe cole did not track back as much to help out.

Have seen people mention Johnsons defending but the one thing to note is not one of the goals came from our right side on Sunday and Giggs was actually kept quiet compared to the other attacking players - I know Johnson has had some probs defending but on Sunday he did his job pretty well

Didn't help Konchesky when he had no help from Cole throughout the game and ended up been doubled up on by Fletcher - Nani and O'Shea at times. Ferguson obviously saw this and this is why the more threatening attacks came down the right handside.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:20 am

TarnRed wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
akumaface wrote:He is what he is, not highly skilled but hard working LB that will gives all he's got. He seems confused at his position as you can see he somehow went inside the goal area instead of attacking outside and try to prevent the crosses from the right winger. I think having Konchesky, Srketl and Carra is ont a good idea as all three are only good at hoofing the ball. We need more balance and hope Agger can provide more balance. But he is not the real problem. I would say Glen johnson defending is worse. With Joe Cole playing in front of Paul, he need to do a lot of defending as Joe cole did not track back as much to help out.

Have seen people mention Johnsons defending but the one thing to note is not one of the goals came from our right side on Sunday and Giggs was actually kept quiet compared to the other attacking players - I know Johnson has had some probs defending but on Sunday he did his job pretty well

Didn't help Konchesky when he had no help from Cole throughout the game and ended up been doubled up on by Fletcher - Nani and O'Shea at times. Ferguson obviously saw this and this is why the more threatening attacks came down the right handside.

Yeah being isolated doesn't help mate and that's where the loss of masher is apparent as well as he would be over there helping out - his covering for full backs is missing at the moment . But when the crosses came in from nani numerous times it was when nani was one on one and konchesky just sat off him .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:31 am

Benny The Noon wrote:We all knew what we were getting when he signed - fulham bought a far superior left back for cheaper and offloaded konchesky onto us - salcido was dismissed because he has an exotic name . Konchesky had played for lower teams his whole career for a reason - because that was his level he has been found severly lacking both defensively and in attack the last two games .

This is where your anti Roy bias comes across.
Konchesky played well against Birmingham, he was one of our better players.
Yes crosses came from that side at times, they will come from both sides it just so happens that the defending in the middle wasnt good enough at times.
Salcido is a decent player but if he is massively better like you are stating why is it Fulham that he has ended up at and the top clubs werent in for him ?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:35 am

I didn't say he didn't play well against Brum - if you read through the thread earlier after the brun game I actually said he had a solid debut but needed to close down the guy he was supposed to be marking quicker to stop the crosses coming in .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:41 am

Benny The Noon wrote:I didn't say he didn't play well against Brum - if you read through the thread earlier after the brun game I actually said he had a solid debut but needed to close down the guy he was supposed to be marking quicker to stop the crosses coming in .

Its sometimes hard to stop crosses coming in.
One thing is for sure, he is a far better bet than Insua would have been.
That's already evident for me. He struggled against united but Insua struggled against almost everyone.
You have in your post made a statement as if he is out of his depth based on the two games, i am saying that he was one of our steadier players against Birmingham.
To me it's typical of the way you have been since Roy took over looking for a chance to pull up any kind of negative with hardly anything positive or complimentary to say.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:51 am

And it's my opinion on the player- nothing at all to do with the manager- he made an encouraging debut against brum but IMO was at fault to stop the crosses coming in because he stood off the player and then in the next two games was poor IMO even more so against the mancs - constantly being caught out of position and once again standing off the guy he is supposedly marking and then when in a forward position he was wasteful - can't someone just have an opinion on a player winging there being some sort of hidden agenda - I'm judging Konchesky on what I see and have seen before - that is all there is too it so please don't look for something that isn't there .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:57 am

Benny The Noon wrote:And it's my opinion on the player- nothing at all to do with the manager- he made an encouraging debut against brum but IMO was at fault to stop the crosses coming in because he stood off the player and then in the next two games was poor IMO even more so against the mancs - constantly being caught out of position and once again standing off the guy he is supposedly marking and then when in a forward position he was wasteful - can't someone just have an opinion on a player winging there being some sort of hidden agenda - I'm judging Konchesky on what I see and have seen before - that is all there is too it so please don't look for something that isn't there .

In THIS thread the one about him, you focused in the post i quoted just on the negatives of his two games.
That's not forming an opinion that's just being negative.
If you ackowledged the good things he did in the Birmingham thread why not include them when weighing up how he has done so far ?

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:05 am

Ben Patrick wrote:Its sometimes hard to stop crosses coming in.
One thing is for sure, he is a far better bet than Insua would have been.

I think that's the imprtant thing to bear in mind Ben, he is better than Insua and he was against a very good player in Nani. Yes he didn't have the best of games (although he was absolutely nowhere near so bad as some are claiming) but he'll get better.

Funnily enough, I was/am actually more concerned about his distribution than I am his defending. Those who claim he was "out of position" for much of the game don't understand what a fullbacks position ought to be I'm afraid. Positionally he was sound enough, but the fact he was getting doubled up on for much of the game was asking him some very searching questions. Equally, Nani is quick as well as skillful and clearly had him for legs, so those asking him to get closer and tighter are wrong too.

He was definately at fault IMHO for the first goal (along with Torres and whoever detailed the striker to pick up Berbatov), but the next two I don't think can be sensibly laid at his door. Neither cross was from the bi-line, on neither occasion did Nani get in behind him (infact he didn't throughout the game), and for both crosses we ought to have done much better in the centre. Play against the likes of Chelsea for instance and they'll practically encourage you to delieer the sort of balls that nani did on these two occasions. Delever it and Terry heads it out for them, for us of course it's not that simple.

His distribution though was poor, and I thought his confidence ebbed a bit after the first goal. He was one of our best players against Birmingham though, so I wouldn't be joining the hysterics just yet.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:05 am

Because the areas I believe I was worried about him in the first game have come to greater light and being ok against brum has been extremely offset by mainly the manc game so at the moment I don't see any positives in him currently but hopefully that will change . I will post something positive about him when I see it . I focused on the negatives in the last couple of games because IMO that is all there was - negatives , I'm certainly not going to go looking for hollow positives and prefer to post exactly how I see it . Are my negatives about him incorrect ? People for years have done nothing but post only negatives about certain players - is it not allowed anymore

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:10 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Because the areas I believe I was worried about him in the first game have come to greater light and being ok against brum has been extremely offset by mainly the manc game so at the moment I don't see any positives in him currently but hopefully that will change . I will post something positive about him when I see it . I focused on the negatives in the last couple of games because IMO that is all there was - negatives , I'm certainly not going to go looking for hollow positives and prefer to post exactly how I see it . Are my negatives about him incorrect ? People for years have done nothing but post only negatives about certain players - is it not allowed anymore

Ah so you will be negative now after 2 games, one good and one poor ?

Was this what you where previously like though ?

I dont think so.

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:13 am

Ben Patrick wrote:If you ackowledged the good things he did in the Birmingham thread why not include them when weighing up how he has done so far ?

Unfortunately it's the way of things at the moment Ben. Players who have plyed their careers in the Premiership for years suddenly aren't good enough to play in it anymore, managers are written off after a couple of matches.

I'm predicting a period of relative calm will descend on the club and the supporters soon though. I've read a few interviews in the papers this morning, and Carra is pretty much blaming himself for the winner (no mention of Konchesky), while Gerrard is saying pretty much what most reasonable observers have, that we played pretty well in the second half and kept the ball pretty well throughout.

He thinks we are improving, and to be perfectly honest so do I. The crux of it isn't whether we will improve or not (because obviously we will) it's whether we'll do it by enough quick enough.

That's when the sensible debate will start about players and managers I suppose, once they can be sensibly judged. For now, all conjecture and posturing is largely irrelevent in the bigger picture.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:17 am

I'm going to post exactly how I see it - like I said are my negatives incorrect ? How about actually discussing what I see are negate about him instead of trying to go into politics about my reasoning to what I am posting - discuss content instead of intent . Tell me what is wrong with what I see as being negative - Tarnred managed to do it so why can't others

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:19 am

Konchesky had been subbed by the time the winner came along

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