Liverpool FC Forum

ted hitchcock wrote:This is bloody catchy.

I like the idea that we know our weather's , the food's , the transport's etc etc but we're STILL Better than you!! Even when we LOSE we're better than you.

OK, it's not exactly Bohemian Rhapsody, but it's a bit of annoyingly catchy fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMGAjTkW7LI

Tricky Dicky wrote:

Not impressive WC record, in the last 14 World Cups they've qualified five times and reached the second round three times.

Paraguay at WC finals : P22 W6 D7 L9 F27 A36

I would hang on to your money, back Argentina.

Just because a nations history in the comp is not so good, that doesn't determine how well they'll do now does it?

I mean Greece's EC record was never any good but that never stopped them from winning the comp more recently.

As for Argentina, I'd hardly call them an "outside bet", would you?

LFC2007 wrote:

Tricky Dicky wrote:

Not impressive WC record, in the last 14 World Cups they've qualified five times and reached the second round three times.

Paraguay at WC finals : P22 W6 D7 L9 F27 A36

I would hang on to your money, back Argentina.

Just because a nations history in the comp is not so good, that doesn't determine how well they'll do now does it?

I mean Greece's EC record was never any good but that never stopped them from winning the comp more recently.

As for Argentina, I'd hardly call them an "outside bet", would you?

Spot on.

What determines how far a team goes is how good they are. Usually the best sides have an historical record of performing well at tournaments and that is a reflection of the level of footballer produced in these countries. But for some of these nations (Brazil, England, Spain, Argentina), getting to the Q/Fs or S/Fs isn't seen as a real achievement yet that's more or less how I see the extent of France, Germany and The Netherlands' potential - i.e. less likely to go as far as England Brazil or Spain. Disastrous campaigns are rare, though they do happen. Just look at S. Korea/Japan. France finished bottom of their group, Argentina, Portugal and Russia finished third - in other words, they failed to qualify for the round of 16. Or in Euro 2008 where France were utterly woeful and finished bottom of their group under the current manager. Or Greece winning Euro 2004 with Spain, Italy, Russia and Germany all failing to get out of the group stages. These things happen because a record tells you what has happened, not what will happen. If Man Utd went into administration and sold off all of their best players and brought in cr@p before the start of the next season, you wouldn't claim "but they'll obviously be right up there next season, just look at their record". You'd look at the quality of their team, their coach and the level of competition make an assessment that way.

If ever a Germany side were going to go tads up in a tournament, it would be this one because it's lacking its best player and doesn't have the quality of the sides gone by that produced the record that Owzat and others like to refer to (is it wise to rely on the events of 20 years in order to speculate what might happen this time around? What remains from 1990 in THIS German side apart from the residual "national conscience"? Feck all is the answer! Teams change, this one has and their historical record is mainly a reflection of an underlying strength in producing good players, that usually but not always translates in major international tournaments, as the best teams have the best players and these teams typically progress further than the rest). If ever there was an Argentina side that looked f'ing dodgy, it's this one. If ever there were a Spain side that looked like it could dominate, it is this one. Why? Because Germany look incomplete and lack quality, because Argentina were extremely dodgy throughout their qualifying campaign and Spain just look exceptional. 

I am not saying that I would bet on Paraguay either, btw, as neither would have I have bet on Greece but if I were to have a flutter and pick a rank outsider I'd pick Paraguay, because I've seen them play and they looked good. Simple as that really.

Owzat wrote:So by your logic anyone could win it because no past record counts? The fact that Paraguay have played in the past three World Cups and done FA doesn't actually register with you, just carry on having an uninformed dig at someone else who has done some research rather than just blown hot air because they don't like what they've read.

I didn't say I was basing it on events 20 years ago, maybe if you'd looked into it you'd see that they haven't done anything in the past three World Cups. if we're basing potential winners on qualifying then England have to be a candidate. Only Spain picked up more points in qualifying, in arguably a weaker group than England's, with England's only defeat 1-2 in Ukraine who reached the QFs in 2006

"I've seen them play and they looked good" - wow, they're dead certs for the cup then......................  Give yourself a "real football fan" pat on the back for basing your assertions very much on your eyesight and judgement, expect a scouting call up or even better from LFC or another big club if you're right :rolleyes:

You will always get the odd side doing unexpected things in a tournament, but I am sure it won't be Paraguay.

But to further expose your uninformed opinion, SEVEN of Paraguay's 10 wins in qualifiers were at home. They won't have that luxury when playing in South Africa. The sides they did beat away were Venezuela, Chile and Colombia, and both Chile and Colombia won in Paraguay.

You talk of "good sides", well funnily enough the big footballing nations tend to remain so regardless of little dips. I would say it is unlikely the "best side" that everyone thinks is Spain will win, in the same way some won't write off Germany I wouldn't write off Argentina. These sides rise to the big occaision, maybe not every tournament, but they're not big footballing nations without reason. Just like a Portugese or French side might win the European Cup every now and then, but you'd expect the winners to be from Spain, England or Italy as has been the case for the past six seasons straight and 11 of the last 13.

The favourites don't always win the World Cup, people are underestimating the importance of the location of the cup although some may place too much significance on it and start talking up African nations.